2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[roabilly]

To the audience.  On one hand, 700 and those pushing for a release want you to think that the TWU contract regarding single carrier isn't really any big deal.  That's the position they have to take since they are otherwise backed into a corner by their own doing since they have failed to recognize other solutions in the midst of these negotiations. There is a reason why Parker has already signed 8 labor contracts that represent about 70,000 employees but has failed to engage intelligently with the IAM.  It's not because he loves all the other unions and hates the IAM, but rather Delaney has insisted on putting politics over the members by engaging in Treasure Island negotiations. Logically, perhaps the Delaney team has done this due to politics, whatever, but those same politics caused the United members to get $0 as Delaney was forced to enter joint talks.  Even the IAM has made it 100% clear, they will only participate in stand alone talks UNTIL [IAM's word, not mine] the NMB makes a single carrier ruling.  That reasonably takes us to September.  The question will become, is there enough time to find solutions as opposed to polar opposite negotiations?  Remember, Delaney's team plays the blame game quite well and will most likely blame the NMB for not issuing a release as the reason to go into joint talks with a goose-egg.  They fooled members at United and got $0, let's not let it happen twice.  There is no evidence over 6 years of them doing anything but BSing and F everything up.  When you compare where your negotiations are at US AIRWAYS with the 70,000 plus that already secured agreements, doesn't that beg the question of why negotiations have deteriorated into polar opposites when Parker has already worked out deals rather quickly with other groups?  Please don't come to the conclusion that AH has a vendetta against the IAM.  AH isn't my favorite but the treasure island negotiation strategy isn't something that is going to interest any management team.  And the IAM reducing itself to screaming to the media, "Help Police Murder" isn't accomplishing anything.  Name calling by the IAM also shows its weak position when management isn't listening.  We have to find a solution, otherwise we risk getting goose-egged.  Timelines are fast approaching.

And this statement STILL has relevance regarding your observations...
 
One thing for certain is this, if the IAM had decided to settle for less, or even nothing in 6 in lieu of promised gains in the JCBA (Transition Talks), you would have been on here publicly assailing the Leadership for “cutting backroom deals” as you have done so often in the past. Now that the IAM is actually sticking to their demands, and letting due process play-out regarding the RLA, you accuse them of letting the Government do their dirty work!
 
Either way... YOU win politically... am I not right? 
 
​Let's face it... if you are successful in your armchair political arguments, you will be elected to a position that pays six figures annually... correct?

 

[Tim Nelson]

And this statement STILL has relevance regarding your observations...
 
One thing for certain is this, if the IAM had decided to settle for less, or even nothing in 6 in lieu of promised gains in the JCBA (Transition Talks), you would have been on here publicly assailing the Leadership for “cutting backroom deals” as you have done so often in the past. Now that the IAM is actually sticking to their demands, and letting due process play-out regarding the RLA, you accuse them of letting the Government do their dirty work!
 
Either way... YOU win politically... am I not right? 
 
​Let's face it... if you are successful in your armchair political arguments, you will be elected to a position that pays six figures annually... correct?

Nope.  If I wanted to play politics and screw the IAM leadership, the best thing to do is sit back and do nothing and watch them all fall over their dumb actions, instead of fighting as I did at United against stupid decisions that force change and make them look better.
 
Who is really playing politics?  Is it the person who says a merger should be recognized and to adapt negotiations, or is politics being played by the peeps participating in treasure island negotiations telling everyone that even though the environment has changed,  that we will pound our chest and bring home more vacation, more holidays, full sick time pay, more scope, more retirement, and an immediate 12% pay raise?  No doubt I lose votes suggesting that the NC ought to consider the merger setting and focus on what can reasonably be expected prior to joint talks.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have AH participate in the treasure island fairy tale but he seems to be a poor sport on fairy tales. To build up the fairy tale, those being political have to dress down the TWU MOU and dress up the big tough NMB.  Even if the NMB gives a release, treasure island won't be what we are striking for.  so, what's the fuss in all of this?  If things delay much more then we may actually need a strike just to chase what could have reasonably been expected in the first place.  Haven't the members suffered enough with smoke blown up their asses for political gain? 
 
The main focus should be attaining the pay bump [Yes our members are starved and need compensated for the last two years] and do your best to grandfather in all  the current stations like PVD and BDL were in 1999. Attaching those two major items to many more items in the 6 item mandate isn't going to do anything other than make management negotiate in the polar opposite and weigh down and sink a proposal. All with the clock ticking towards the single carrier ruling.

 

[robbedagain]

the way that MOU is written  its my own observation that DP and AH had never thought the TWU and the IAM would come together   ITs all written with TWU to file for SCS on without thinking that the IAM and the TWU would join forces (if you will)  and it states the TWU would file  on behalf of the TWU represented employees  no where does it have anything about the IAM   That's a big concern there

 

[WeAAsles]

the way that MOU is written  its my own observation that DP and AH had never thought the TWU and the IAM would come together   ITs all written with TWU to file for SCS on without thinking that the IAM and the TWU would join forces (if you will)  and it states the TWU would file  on behalf of the TWU represented employees  no where does it have anything about the IAM   That's a big concern there

Correct. The MOU between the TWU and Usair is a seperate entity from the TWU/IAM Association. It was not done with the thought that there would be any association. 

 

[WeAAsles]

They gave up profit sharing in exchange for the raise, cost neutral.

Wrong. Many of our people work extra hours including CS work and OT. And the raise is also included as part of our 401K match. The raise is also compounded yearly by 2.1% increases each year. The industry averaging formula in Sept 2015 does not go down if your wages are still static at that time. We will still recieve a 2.1% increase either way. The absolute value was a much better decision than taking the unknown value of a PS that only pays out if they make a profit. (Yes I do believe they are going to make plenty of profits but you never know)

We received PS for the year since we didn't agree until near the end of last year to the raises. My take was $695.10 before taxes, after taxes was $469.14.

 

[737823]

Wrong. Many of our people work extra hours including CS work and OT. And the raise is also included as part of our 401K match. The raise is also compounded yearly by 2.1% increases each year. The industry averaging formula in Sept 2015 does not go down if your wages are still static at that time. We will still recieve a 2.1% increase either way. The absolute value was a much better decision than taking the unknown value of a PS that only pays out if they make a profit. (Yes I do believe they are going to make plenty of profits but you never know)

We received PS for the year since we didn't agree until near the end of last year to the raises. My take was $695.10 before taxes, after taxes was $469.14.

It irks him that the TWU did a better job than the IAM. Compared to the IAM the TWU rocks!

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

the way that MOU is written  its my own observation that DP and AH had never thought the TWU and the IAM would come together   ITs all written with TWU to file for SCS on without thinking that the IAM and the TWU would join forces (if you will)  and it states the TWU would file  on behalf of the TWU represented employees  no where does it have anything about the IAM   That's a big concern there

Remember, a company only needs one union to trigger this. It will either be the TWU or its agent, the association.  Either way, it triggers single carrier and will also trigger a vote on the association presumably this fall/winter. That is separate from negotiations. Therefore, it is very important to find a solution to negotiations in the near term. I honestly don't think there will be any movement at all by management if the IAM doesn't recognize a few items. Not giving management a free pass, but allowing management to wash its hands and force us into joint talks with $0 is a possibility if the IAM continues the same play it did at United.

 

[WeAAsles]

It irks him that the TWU did a better job than the IAM. Compared to the IAM the TWU rocks!

Josh

There are many circumstances as to why the TWU did better during the AA BK than other bankruptcies in the industry. We just had more advantages and that was not due to better or worse negotiating on either unions part.

Please do not use my comment for any agenda you might have as it is by far not my intention to compare what I consider two great unions doing the best they can under extremely difficult circumstances.

 

[WeAAsles]

There are many circumstances as to why the TWU did better during the AA BK than other bankruptcies in the industry. We just had more advantages and that was not due to better or worse negotiating on either unions part.

Please do not use my comment for any agenda you might have as it is by far not my intention to compare what I consider two great unions doing the best they can under extremely difficult circumstances.

And we also took it on the chin just like everyone else. Let's not forget that.

 

[700UW]

Apples and oranges joshie.

AA financed their own chapter 11.

They didn't file chapter 11 twice within two years.

And if the TWU did such a great job as you claims, why do both PMUS have better scope, sick time, overtime, holidays, pension and other items?

You are a finance man, which is better 50% of heavy maintenance billable hours or 35% of the total maintenance budget?

And if I ma correct US fleet are staffed at more than 17 stations.

 

[737823]

The TWU @ AA is still much better than the IAM at USAIR. Fortunately my home airport will remain a TWU station after the alliance. You love justifying everything with bankruptcy, two bankruptcies in two years...

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Apples and oranges joshie.

AA financed their own chapter 11.

They didn't file chapter 11 twice within two years.

And if the TWU did such a great job as you claims, why do both PMUS have better scope, sick time, overtime, holidays, pension and other items?

You are a finance man, which is better 50% of heavy maintenance billable hours or 35% of the total maintenance budget?

And if I ma correct US fleet are staffed at more than 17 stations.

you keep saying that fleets iampf will cost the company more than a 5.5% 401k. The math is fairly simple costing out those company cost as it certainly cost more for the company to pay out 5.5% on $23 (and cumulative on ot) than it does to pay $1.05 per hour up to 40 hours. The 40% of our members who are part time get completly pimped off by the iampf as the company only puts in a .65 token benefit. For a normal scheduled part timer, the company benefit is $20 something a noth but then the iam penalty credit brings it down to about $15 a month. Whooppie! Work 20 years and get a pension worth $300 a month. Bravo 700! Bravo!

 

[robbedagain]

700 I believe you are correct with regards to mainline at 17 or more.     though I do have 1 quest for you bro  when I read that alliance you gave me the link to  it did not say what stations would be staffed by twu or iam  just that the association will continue to represent the employees    my quest is josh keeps saying MIA is TWU staffed  but what about the US folks      the way I read the links you provided is that the TWU/IAM will represent all the FSAs and M&R    yet Josh refers MIA as TWU staffed
 
Josh  say what you want  but your hatred for IAM and US is quite clear as is your hatred of 700   
 
Weaasles  Given that the MOU was written with the TWU side only  How will the donkeys get their synergies realized  the benes reaped if say PMUS and PMAA do not work each other metals?  

 

[WeAAsles]

 
 
Weaasles  Given that the MOU was written with the TWU side only  How will the donkeys get their synergies realized  the benes reaped if say PMUS and PMAA do not work each other metals?
[/quote]

None of that will happen until the company files for the SOC and we have a JCBA. All of that is still a ways down the line but I can almost bet our integration won't be anywhere near as bad as others that came before it. Watch.

 

[737823]

my quest is josh keeps saying MIA is TWU staffed  but what about the US folks      the way I read the links you provided is that the TWU/IAM will represent all the FSAs and M&R    yet Josh refers MIA as TWU staffed
 
Josh  say what you want  but your hatred for IAM and US is quite clear as is your hatred of 700

Robbed, per the alliance agreement MIA, AA hubs and other stations where AA has more employees with be TWU stations.

Josh