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2014 Fleet Service Discussion

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Just a quick question for NYer....
 
I have observed that you spend an incredible amount of time and energy in this forum, almost as much time as Tim spends on it...
 
Now, one thing I know for certain about human psychology, is that no one spends time and/or energy engaged in activities with no meaning, or purpose... except possibly the clinically insane! What exactly are your goals in terms of accomplishment here in this forum? I’m not challenging you, or disrespecting you... I’m just attempting to discern what your motivations are...
 
Are you a TWU Leader?
 
NYer said:
 
They could keep both with an LOM that has the current Cargo and Catering functions remain at their current locations.
 
It may not be probable, but I hope it's possible.
Let's get one thing straight, losing scope isn't an option.  The Association should take the best of both contracts and work upwards from there.  Absolutely no reason in the world to justify a union giving up any scope whatsoever in Joint talks.  It's quite absurd for you to suggest that it may not be probable as the only thing supporting that conclusion is the association waiving off scope clauses. 
 
The reality of the situation is much different than your experience allows.  The history of negotiations at US AIRWAYS indicates a pattern.  For instance, although US East didn't have cargo,  US West did, so the 3 cargo centers were included under our scope.  US West didn't have catering but US East did.  Thus, US East kept its catering.
 
Moving forward, the 5 sAA cargo centers will stay, along with the us West cargo centers in PHX and LAS, and the sUS catering will stay, along with lav work in the current airports. All will stay unless a union leadership bargains it away.
 
roabilly said:
I know 700 personally,
 
I’ll assure you he is NOT a divider... he is extremely knowledgeable in collective bargaining.
In addition, there are many things he has done to support and unite the groups (Fleet and MX) that he did on his own time. I've seen it first hand... personally!

He is one of the most devoted practitioners of Unionism that  I've ever met...
 
Comparing him to Tim, is like comparing Gandhi to Genghis Khan!
Well at this moment he's certainly acting like Tim. He's IGNORING every single solitary item being thrown at him. Completely IGNORING everything to try and PUSH his own arguments.

Let's make one part of the item very plain and simple once again about SWA. SWA has made money and continues to make money every year since the day they hatched out of the egg. SWA has never been through BK.

700 acts like (even if he can't understand what concession means) great CBA negotiations and negotiators have given them the benefits in his mind that they enjoy over us. IGNORE the entire contract if you want but they make more (PER HOUR) than we do because the company that they work for made more PROFIT than yours and mine. Simple as that period!
 
I am not ignoring anything, I have refuted every piece of information NYer has put out.
 
You and him seem to be ignoring that larger planes require more employees.
 
Thats not a hard fact to comprehend.
 
Concessionary bargaining reduces the overall cost of a CBA, that hasnt happened at WN.
 

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WeAAsles said:
Well at this moment he's certainly acting like Tim. He's IGNORING every single solitary item being thrown at him. Completely IGNORING everything to try and PUSH his own arguments.

Let's make one part of the item very plain and simple once again about SWA. SWA has made money and continues to make money every year since the day they hatched out of the egg. SWA has never been through BK.

700 acts like (even if he can't understand what concession means) great CBA negotiations and negotiators have given them the benefits in his mind that they enjoy over us. IGNORE the entire contract if you want but they make more (PER HOUR) than we do because the company that they work for made more PROFIT than yours and mine. Simple as that period!
WeAAsles... this should not be about "US and THEM"... in essence that is the divider... let's remove the THEM...
 
Now, in terms of SW... I have read financial, and business synopsis, as well as complete assessments of their business model. The Charlotte Observer spent almost two years comparing SW to US, as did every single financial publication in existence. The end result from ALL of this is simple... SW is a domestic carrier with basically one A/C type, and a relatively young workforce.
 
Unless the combined AA/US decides to downsize to challenge and compete with that model, it's comparing apples to oranges...
 
700UW said:
Concessionary bargaining reduces the overall cost of a CBA, that hasnt happened at WN.

Concessions are not individualized to each and every member, but can be taken as pieces to a contract. That HAS happened at WN.


 
 
As an individual I do not care about the full value OTHERS get if they've hung me out to dry for their own wallets, union or otherwise.
 
roabilly said:
I'm sure you are salivating like a rabid dog in hopes Cronk will win... my bet is if he wins... YOU win!
We all win. The end of concessionary bargaining must stop otherwise our union continues to die.  IMO, I think Buffenbarger is in the drivers seat, and that it is unlikely that Jay will win, but he has put himself in a position to, and certainly has a load of steam.   I'm proud of the United dominated locals for voting strongly for reform.  I think that bodes well for June.  At any rate, him running for office has exposed some very real things about the IAM that need to get fixed.  If Buffenbarger wins then I hope that the IAM can learn from this and finally move the union forward.
 
WeAAsles said:
 
Concessionary bargaining reduces the overall cost of a CBA, that hasnt happened at WN.

Concessions are not individualized to each and every member, but can be taken as pieces to a contract. That HAS happened at WN,
 
OK... let's entertain this thought. They (WN Fleet) took concessions that really weren't called concessions? --  In other words, contractual language "evolved" that permitted certain financial liberties to transpire that favored WN... is this what you are saying?
 
Tim Nelson said:
We all win. The end of concessionary bargaining must stop otherwise our union continues to die.  IMO, I think Buffenbarger is in the drivers seat, and that it is unlikely that Jay will win, but he has put himself in a position to, and certainly has a load of steam.   I'm proud of the United dominated locals for voting strongly for reform.  I think that bodes well for June.  At any rate, him running for office has exposed some very real things about the IAM that need to get fixed.  If Buffenbarger wins then I hope that the IAM can learn from this and finally move the union forward.
Are you going to go fishing if you lose in June... as indicated the last time?
 
roabilly said:
WeAAsles... this should not be about "US and THEM"... in essence that is the divider... let's remove the THEM...

Exactly what I've been trying to do but a certain individual keeps wanting to compare that "US and THEM"
 
Now, in terms of SW... I have read financial, and business synopsis, as well as complete assessments of their business model. The Charlotte Observer spent almost two years comparing SW to US, as did every single financial publication in existence. The end result from ALL of this is simple... SW is a domestic carrier with basically one A/C type, and a relatively young workforce.

Correct.
 
Unless the combined AA/US decides to downsize to challenge and compete with that model, it's comparing apples to oranges...

Correct again.
 
It's about time our paternal union succumbs to online voting.  Voting online for contracts and officers will produce more participation.  The present dinosauric method is mind boggling in today's changing world.
 
It's one of many things that the reform team wants to accomplish.
 



Our Platform &

A Letter from Jay Cronk

​March 25, 2014
My fellow IAM Members, Buffy just doesn’t get it! From the onset we at IAM Reform have offered a clear vision of what’s wrong with our union today:
• Nepotism, cronyism
• Excessive spending for the benefit of a few at the great expense of us, the many. Ever escalating Executive Council salaries and expenses, per capita tax and dues rates that impose a real burden on today’s worker, our members
• The complete absence of democracy within our union, the suppression of our members’ collective voice and vote
• Substandard contracts negotiated and approved by inexperienced, inept representatives appointed through cronyism
• Appointees whose interests’ conflict with the members they are appointed to represent
• The awarding of high paying, critical staff positions to family and friends who are not even members of the IAM.

These abuses of power under Buffenbarger serve as a repudiation of the commitment, service and sacrifice thousands of IAM Local and District Lodge officers, our members, selflessly make for the betterment of our union, our communities, and our members every day.

Buffenbarger’s focus during this election solely on personal smears against myself and the veteran union leaders whom I’m proud to call my fellow Reform candidates shows he has absolutely no plan or vision to change. His unabashed culture of privilege for the few at the great expense of the many is not in line with the principles of trade unionism and must be rooted out if we, as an organization, are to thrive and prosper.

We at IAM Reform offer a vision for moving our great union forward:

• Reigning in the lavish and exorbitant salaries of our Executive Council, reducing its unwieldy, unnecessary size.
• Reducing the burden of our high priced per capita tax and dues rates. Bringing fairness back to the dues structure for all members, and opening up our union for the growth through organizing those current per capita tax and dues rates have precluded us from accomplishing.
• Introducing a new concept to the highest levels of our union; democracy and free and fair elections at all levels of this organization. Another new concept, electronic voting, will enable all members to participate in the most important decisions we as a membership need to make.
• And of more importance than most realize, we will bring transparency to the financial dealings of this organization and those who are charged with leading it.

Please see our full Platform below.

Buffy refuses to debate the issues, Buffy refuses to even discuss the issues or his vision. He’s hoping to distract members from all of the abuse, excess and failure he and his cronies have heaped on us as members. This historic campaign is far too important to be lost in lies and smears and fictional caricatures of me and the other Reform candidates.

This election impacts the goals and aspirations of our entire membership who now, for the first time in our lives, have the opportunity to decide what that vision will be and who will lead us in achieving it. This is a choice they cannot take from us.

We have an opportunity denied to thousands and thousands of IAM members who came before us, let’s make democracy work for all of us.

No IAM President or Executive Council member has ever served beyond their 65th birthday. Tom Buffenbarger and Robert Roach will both turn 65 next year and both have already announced their retirement. This is how they’ve always rigged the game, you’re really not electing Buffy or Roach, a vote for either is a vote for the unknown! A vote for Buffy or Roach is tacit approval of their game of cronyism and nepotism, and will allow them to appoint their successors and once again deny you the right to decide the direction of our organization and who will lead it.

We at IAM Reform are all in, our lives are an open book, and our platform, our vision for our collective future remains clear. We ask that you learn the facts, read the truth and share the vision of what our union could be. We ask for your support, your vote in April’s election and we ask that you help us spread our message and our vision and encourage all IAM members to participate in this historic and monumental election in April. Attend your April lodge meeting or request an absentee ballot and vote for change, vote for reform, vote for a future of more promise, pride and integrity for our union.  

​In Solidarity,
Jay Cronk
Book #AK014715 Local Lodge 1112
IAM member since 1975
​Candidate for International President
 
WeAAsles said:
 
WeAAsles... this should not be about "US and THEM"... in essence that is the divider... let's remove the THEM...

Exactly what I've been trying to do but a certain individual keeps wanting to compare that "US and THEM"
 
Now, in terms of SW... I have read financial, and business synopsis, as well as complete assessments of their business model. The Charlotte Observer spent almost two years comparing SW to US, as did every single financial publication in existence. The end result from ALL of this is simple... SW is a domestic carrier with basically one A/C type, and a relatively young workforce.

Correct.
 
Unless the combined AA/US decides to downsize to challenge and compete with that model, it's comparing apples to oranges...

Correct again.
 
All I will say on this is... from my perspective, I have not read into, or interpreted 700's comments as being designed to divide. I guess I'll leave that up to the readers, and your personal perception, along with your on-line relationship with 700. But again, I did not glean that theme from the conversations...
 
I will not address this in the future, it's now between you and 700...
 
Tim Nelson said:
It's about time our paternal union succumbs to online voting.  Voting online for contracts and officers will produce more participation.  The present dinosauric method is mind boggling in today's changing world.
 
It's one of many things that the reform team wants to accomplish.
More participation--> More member engagement---More power for the union as a whole...
 
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