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2014 Fleet Service Discussion

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freedom said:
Oh well in that case I have no problem with his level of compensation. ..

I still think the AGCs should be making 75-80K though.
Why? A man works hard witin the Union structure to get to where he is don't you think he should be compensated for that? Besides with OT I can make almost the same amount as these guys without ever having to leave my home or have to hear from all the knuckleheads out there that want to blame me for everything including their own inability to manage their personal finances. Or maybe even the problem of their limp wanky?
 
freedom said:
Oh well in that case I have no problem with his level of compensation. ..

I still think the AGCs should be making 75-80K though.
I can make that staying at my station and work overtime once a week or less for christs sake......They travel away from home a lot of the time....and BTW... yes some do make around that much.......
 
75-80K is compensation enough ,100K is just wasteful spending, remember they get paid out of our dues.
 
freedom said:
75-80K is compensation enough ,100K is just wasteful spending, remember they get paid out of our dues.
That the membership approved.... Freedom, did someone take the hose to you because ur all wet
 
And have you worked as they do?
 
Available 24 hours a day 7 days a week on usually on the road living in a hotel from Monday through Friday.
 
The AGCs earn every penny and they dont put in just an 8 hour day.
 
See you lied about what Delaney makes, you have no credibility.
 
WeAAsles said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but because the former CO workers had no CBA, UAL had the ability to close those stations with or without the approval of the IAM? The former Co people are paying for the fact that they were non union in the past and wore no pants.

I believe UAL was going to close those stations no matter what and told the negotiators that. The TA they took was a take it or leave it and at least gave those people who's stations were closing options that they didn't have before and options they would not have had had there been a no vote on their now current contract.
WeAAsles,
I'm glad you shed some light on the dynamics that led up to the TA reached and subsequent ratification by the membership at UA. These dynamics do not exist concerning the US Fleet contract negotiations. Unfortunately, AH and the company has witnessed what was agreed to and ratified, concerning scope, with the UA contract and want the same. Negotiations are all about give and take. What is the NC willing to give up in order to improve scope? Additionally, if they sacrifice improvements in wage, benefits, vacation/sick accrual and other Articles how can they reasonably expect a ratification of any such agreement? IMO... this is the situation the NC finds themselves in. Candidates for the oppostion can claim they could get the whole pie. Easier said than done. Then again; that is the advantage opposition candidates have in an election. In May of 2014 they can promise anything. 6 years ago the same candidate promised change by voting Canale and his team out. The agenda of the company will not change. The amount of leverage the union has to defend the membership from the comany's agenda will not change. Regardless of who is elected. This is the same enemy the Canale Team faced. It will be the same enemy faced in future negotiations. The rest is hollow promises and political grandstanding. It's us (the membership) against them (the company). With that being said... I don't believe it would be in the best interest of the US members to "pull the rug out" from beneath the existing leadership team and the NC. We are at a critical juncture. A time where we should be demonstrating solidarity behind the elected leadership and the appointed NC. Let's wait and see. in the meantime... LOCK and LOAD!  
 
WeAAsles said:
 
I think what we have seen with unions, regardless of which one, is that they are giving up work.  Sometimes in bankruptcy, a Judge may give it up, but with a company making millions, or in this case, billions,  I don't think it is a question of either/or, or over/under.  It ought to be both/and.  Cutting outlying stations/work for a bigger buck for those in the hubs is a taxation on all.  Just because it doesn't look like the hubs got taxed doesn't mean they didn't.
 
Consider the United contract. 7 stations with scope. The company's opening proposal in 2018 will be 4 stations.  I'm not a prophet but that's what the opening proposal may be, if not 3.   So, even though DEN, IAD, or LAX may feel comfortable now,  they are now on the bubble.  Let's keep stations off the bubble and bring unionism back to "One for All and All for One" because when we give up work, it's one less member and makes us weaker. So, why not look at expanding scope and not doing so without 'cost neutral' trading?  Gaining work in good times is what our focus should be.  I think we can go back to that.  Will it be tough? Of course, but that should be our vision.

Alright but my question to you did gain jobs by bringing back cabin and mail. The jobs are now in the hubs though instead of the outline stations. Losing those two jobs in MIA alone was about 400 people. Now let's say we had hundreds more in all the other hubs so even after the station closures you actually have a net gain of jobs. They are just jobs that are condensed to specific locations. Would you find something like that to be satisfactory? 
 
That said, I realize MIA, or CLT, or PHL, or ORD may have a different opinion, but my opinion is that losing stations has already affected them as well.

Under BK we lost stations and jobs although a lot of it was mitigated with the EBO.
 
It's an interesting scenario but the guiding principle ought to be both/and.  If a company wants to give us scope for mail and freight, and that means 2,000 jobs, but also wants to tie that into getting rid of a half dozen stations representing 250 jobs, then I think we maintain both and look for another way to bridge the gap.  Small stations are not too heavy.  For example, I think asking for $23 is really low right now, but I've maintained that I could see members being more receiving of a lower wage if the current stations were grandfathered.  And I'm not talking about any "Cheater Scope" with drop dead dates. 
 
700UW said:
And have you worked as they do?
 
Available 24 hours a day 7 days a week on usually on the road living in a hotel from Monday through Friday.
 
The AGCs earn every penny and they dont put in just an 8 hour day.
 
See you lied about what Delaney makes, you have no credibility.
Fine take the 100K positions Turn the salary into 50K and then double the number of AGC'S
 
ograc said:
WeAAsles,
I'm glad you shed some light on the dynamics that led up to the TA reached and subsequent ratification by the membership at UA. These dynamics do not exist concerning the US Fleet contract negotiations. Unfortunately, AH and the company has witnessed what was agreed to and ratified, concerning scope, with the UA contract and want the same. Negotiations are all about give and take. What is the NC willing to give up in order to improve scope? Additionally, if they sacrifice improvements in wage, benefits, vacation/sick accrual and other Articles how can they reasonably expect a ratification of any such agreement? IMO... this is the situation the NC finds themselves in. Candidates for the oppostion can claim they could get the whole pie. Easier said than done. Then again; that is the advantage opposition candidates have in an election. In May of 2014 they can promise anything. 6 years ago the same candidate promised change by voting Canale and his team out. The agenda of the company will not change. The amount of leverage the union has to defend the membership from the comany's agenda will not change. Regardless of who is elected. This is the same enemy the Canale Team faced. It will be the same enemy faced in future negotiations. The rest is hollow promises and political grandstanding. It's us (the membership) against them (the company). With that being said... I don't believe it would be in the best interest of the US members to "pull the rug out" from beneath the existing leadership team and the NC. We are at a critical juncture. A time where we should be demonstrating solidarity behind the elected leadership and the appointed NC. Let's wait and see. in the meantime... LOCK and LOAD!  
You have mischaracterized me plenty and almost entirely in the above comment.
 
That being the case, regarding your remarks about negotiations, for clarity, you aren't referring to 'cost neutral' or other tradeoff negotiations are you?
 
Tim Nelson said:
It's an interesting scenario but the guiding principle ought to be both/and.  If a company wants to give us scope for mail and freight, and that means 2,000 jobs, but also wants to tie that into getting rid of a half dozen stations representing 250 jobs, then I think we maintain both and look for another way to bridge the gap.  Small stations are not too heavy.  For example, I think asking for $23 is really low right now, but I've maintained that I could see members being more receiving of a lower wage if the current stations were grandfathered.  And I'm not talking about any "Cheater Scope" with drop dead dates. 

+1

"Give to get" is a path labor needs to get off of.

We're not the drag on the system the bosses want us to think we are...
 
robbedagain said:
it'd be very interesting to know where the progress is being made    is it in one of the 6  or all of the 6  or a combo of any of the 6 areas that were i'd earlier
As I said earlier in this thread, the Company is at a crossroads. They are poised to be Billion Dollar PLUS annual profit carrier. They will simply make the best business decision available to achieve that goal very soon, and that will be a decent Section Six Agreement for both Fleet and MTX.
 
Further delays in transition talks will only lead to lost revenue potential, and the Company knows this, they will elect to move forward, and synergize the merged carriers.
 
The point has come, where it will cost the Company MORE to procrastinate, than to settle! 
 
Tim Nelson said:
You have mischaracterized me plenty and almost entirely in the above comment.
 
That being the case, regarding your remarks about negotiations, for clarity, you aren't referring to 'cost neutral' or other tradeoff negotiations are you?
What I'm referring to Tim is it's easy to campaign that you will get it all for the membership if elected. You know these campaign promises are unrealistic and unachievable. Although you want to sell the membership on "no retreat" in negotiations and you will get it all; you know you are being misleading. By the way... what does AGC, Trustee and Vice President elections have to do with current contract negotiations? The NC is appointed by the District President is it not? Shouldn't the focus, concerning the AGC positions, be on Grienance Committee / Shop Steward experience? Of which your running mates have none. Is this about you or the betterment of the membership? 
 
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