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2014 Fleet Service Discussion

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ograc said:
Tim and the U4C team will not conceed anything at this point. Even if the team loses the election; it's pretty obvious Tim will protest the results. He will never say "I Don't know". The U4C slate did not win a single US hub. They lost PHX by a narrow margin, They lost PHL by a two to one margin. They lost in CLT by over 400 votes. The U4C slate is not endorsed by the US members. The numbers are overwhelming and indisputable. You can rerun an election all you want. The results on the US side will be the same.
i dont think anyone is asking them to concede anything...  
 
tim said that he would have vote counts.. and bring them here
 
he hasnt
 
if he cant give that to us for whatever reason he should tell us that.. he doesnt know  not ignore it 
 
this is nothing to do with recounts or objecting the vote... its him doing what he said he wuold, and if he cant then tell us..
 
 
he said he would give us vote counts. if he cant give that to us he should say so and tell us why.. 
 
mike33 said:
It he can't hold his promise on vote counts and term sheets then how can he promise anything going fwd???
im kind of leaning that way too...
 
But i have given him the benefit of the doubt
perhaps there is a reason he cant give us those numbers
 
in that case (and right now that case alone) 
he should tell us the reason why, and step up.
 
if its strictly he doesnt know the numbers he should step up and say so..  
 
no one is saying he should bow out or u4c should either.  but this is a simple thing he said he would do these things, he hasnt, he hasnt given a good reason why, and everytime someone asks someone comes out of the woodwork comes out to defend him, so he doesnt have to answer the questions... 
 
this isnt even a hard thing to answer. hey tim you said you would have vote counts keep us informed... 
 
he could say
 
im sorry guys i know i promised that but for these reasons i cant
or im sorry guys ive been real busy let me get those numbers for you
 
 
not silence
 
Off topic.

Just got my tickets in the mail today to see  Deep Purple.  Amazing these guys play Stadiums in some countries and here in the States I'm seeing them at a Hard Rock casino. America really stinks for music.

Carry on.

 
 
WeAAsles said:
Off topic.

Just got my tickets in the mail today to see  Deep Purple.  Amazing these guys play Stadiums in some countries and here in the States I'm seeing them at a Hard Rock casino. America really stinks for music.

Carry on.

 
damn I thought I was old...lol
 
robbedagain said:
tim what is the count   all we know is after that first week when the elections began you had 750  mostly from UA  but we would like to see actual nbrs  if its possible
Robbed, U4C is up at this point but barely. There are challenged ballots to be counted in July.  Nobody will know who wins until the challenged ballots are counted. It's that close.  The district doesn't give us the total numbers so there are a few stations we are guessing on that we gave benefit of doubt to rising. I gave an update that it was close, last week.  That update remains unchanged. 
 
ograc said:
Tim and the U4C team will not conceed anything at this point. Even if the team loses the election; it's pretty obvious Tim will protest the results. He will never say "I Don't know". The U4C slate did not win a single US hub. They lost PHX by a narrow margin, They lost PHL by a two to one margin. They lost in CLT by over 400 votes. The U4C slate is not endorsed by the US members. The numbers are overwhelming and indisputable. You can rerun an election all you want. The results on the US side will be the same.
The violations of the membership by 141 rising can not be tolerated. Instead of you blaming me for filing protest, how about blaming the leadership who can't get an election straight without violating its members?   A vast majority of the membership was not allowed to have their voices heard.  I have no problem with how the US AIRWAYS members voted, it was actually rewarding for all of us to see them turn out in CLT.  But violating the vast majority of members rights, and violating myself as a candidate simply will not be tolerated by me or any decent union member. I'm considering just stepping aside and creating and pushing a opposition slate like I did in 2008, if U4C loses. I'm working with Robyn Eulo and I'm also hopeful that she will win her EEOC case.  The way I look at it, I gave it two tries, and maybe it's time to step aside and let someone else jump in if I lose this time. Even if the DOL case is successful.   
 
Tim Nelson said:
The violations of the membership by 141 rising can not be tolerated. Instead of you blaming me for filing protest, how about blaming the leadership who can't get an election straight without violating its members?   A vast majority of the membership was not allowed to have their voices heard.  I have no problem with how the US AIRWAYS members voted, it was actually rewarding for all of us to see them turn out in CLT.  But violating the vast majority of members rights, and violating myself as a candidate simply will not be tolerated by me or any decent union member. I'm considering just stepping aside and creating and pushing a opposition slate like I did in 2008, if U4C loses. I'm working with Robyn Eulo and I'm also hopeful that she will win her EEOC case.  The way I look at it, I gave it two tries, and maybe it's time to step aside and let someone else jump in if I lose this time. Even if the DOL case is successful.   
im going to regret asking this... 
 
so how were you violated as a candidate?
 
PHXConx said:
im going to regret asking this... 
 
so how were you violated as a candidate?
Although most of the blatant violations were due to the District's refusal to follow the union bylaws and also the LMRDA rights of members,  individual candidates also have rights.  For instance, I asked for the District to send out my campaign material and asked them the cost of having them do so.  They emailed back that they would refuse to do that because they 'simply don't have the staffing'.  I also asked to have the same access as any other candidate using addresses, email list, etc that current leadership may use. It refused that as well.  Both are blatant violations. 
 
From the DOL website:
A union may not refuse to distribute literature because it has no staff or a small staff. If necessary, a union should employ additional temporary staff, use a professional mailer, or have the election officials make the distribution in order to comply with any requests. Any costs (for producing address labels, hiring temporary employees, etc.) can be passed on to each candidate requesting a distribution of literature.
 
The District just flat out refused through an email by saying that it wasn't going to provide the staff to do my mailings and that I should file an appeal if that's what I want to do.
 
PHXConx said:
im going to regret asking this... 
 
so how were you violated as a candidate?
He would bring his own chair to view the elections in each city and someone kept putting crazy glue on the seat..
 
Tim Nelson said:
Robbed, U4C is up at this point but barely. There are challenged ballots to be counted in July.  Nobody will know who wins until the challenged ballots are counted. It's that close.  The district doesn't give us the total numbers so there are a few stations we are guessing on that we gave benefit of doubt to rising. I gave an update that it was close, last week.  That update remains unchanged. 
im not sure how you can say you are up if you dont have an exact count... but at least this answer explains why you didnt post an exact count, while i question your ability to say you are up i do appreciate the answer to the question thank you 
 
Tim Nelson said:
Although most of the blatant violations were due to the District's refusal to follow the union bylaws and also the LMRDA rights of members,  individual candidates also have rights.  For instance, I asked for the District to send out my campaign material and asked them the cost of having them do so.  They emailed back that they would refuse to do that because they 'simply don't have the staffing'.  I also asked to have the same access as any other candidate using addresses, email list, etc that current leadership may use. It refused that as well.  Both are blatant violations. 
 
From the DOL website:
A union may not refuse to distribute literature because it has no staff or a small staff. If necessary, a union should employ additional temporary staff, use a professional mailer, or have the election officials make the distribution in order to comply with any requests. Any costs (for producing address labels, hiring temporary employees, etc.) can be passed on to each candidate requesting a distribution of literature.
 
The District just flat out refused through an email by saying that it wasn't going to provide the staff to do my mailings and that I should file an appeal if that's what I want to do.
I dont remember getting any mailings from the other candidates are you saying the district sent out their mailings but not yours?
 
oh and im not saying it did or didnt, i just dont remember it... it may be in my non bill pile from 3 months ago lol 
 
WeAAsles said:
Off topic.

Just got my tickets in the mail today to see  Deep Purple.  Amazing these guys play Stadiums in some countries and here in the States I'm seeing them at a Hard Rock casino. America really stinks for music.

Carry on.

 
If only Ritchie Blackmore and Jon Lord were still with the band.....
 
PHXConx said:
I dont remember getting any mailings from the other candidates are you saying the district sent out their mailings but not yours?
I'm saying that they were required to, whether other candidates did so or not.  All candidates have the right to request to have the union do the mailings with the candidates paying for them.  I requested and exercised this right, and the Atkinson refused through email.  Further, there were some candidates who chose to violate the law themselves, including one from CLT.  He used the normal and customary grievance committee email address to send out a blast email briefing to the entire membership in charlotte 'hammering' the opposition.  The use of union email list is prohibited under law as using union resources or list obtained through union resources.  I then asked Atkinson to the same access for him to send my email to the same members.  He refused through confirmed email.  Anytime a incumbent uses a email list or addresses for political gain, opposing candidates must be given the same access to insure a fair election. 
 
Those were just two of several dozen violations.
 
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