2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[ograc]

It's definately an election year, within the IAM, for Officers at the Grand Lodge and District 141! I repect the democratic process the IAM is founded on, yet I find this process counter productive at times, to building solidarity. At a time in US Fleet negotiations; when solidarity is critical, politics tends to erode any semblance of such. All the while, the company, like the wolf at the door, waits for the crumbling from within. They await again for more newly elected and less experienced representatives. Based on the nomination process... does anyone know if an Officer election will be required in June for DL 142?  

 

[necigrad]

I try to read this forum at LEAST weekly, often daily.  The off topic postings have gotten out of hand.  The personal oneupmanship pissing contests, libelous charges, and flat out childish arguing has gotten FAR too out out of control.  Also out of control is the moderators failure to moderate (though I pay no money to the site, so maybe I have no right to complain).  Overall, the active users disgust me.  You have far more interest in personal battles in a forum about US FSAs then about US FSAs.

 

[robbedagain]

what does a financial man like you hate the IAM so much and hate US so much 
 
why don't you reveal what financial institution you work for on here 
 
after all some of us, notably 700 has made clear what he has done  and all  
 
those are the questions you were asked before  and never responded  yet you expect us to answer

 

[robbedagain]

Cargo, I often wondered why have an election at such a very very critical timing here  esp with Sect 6 talks at an impasse   the NMB failures to do release us etc    but deep down, I seriously have to wonder what is the company gonna do next....   esp like this:   After the elections, will the company offer a secondary POS deal  or will the NMB release us before then or right around the election    I think these and some other questions need to be looked at and answered

 

[necigrad]

Regarding the Association and Tims obsession with the question about if the NMB has recognized the Association to represent and PRezs statement on the matter and refusing to comment further, I'm going to provide m insight (for whatever that may be worth).  Is the Association recognized as a bargaining unit?  No.  but why does that matter?  They are not even attempting to represent us AT THIS TIME.  In the future they most certainly will, but as of now it's an agreement (I THINK legally binding, but I'm not positive) between two entities agreeing on several things.  If the Association agreement says that the TWU won't file for single carrier status, if the Association is legal and binding then the TWU would be legally in breach if they filed for SCS.  If the TWU agreed with the company to file for SCS and they don't then if THAT contract is legally binding they'd be in breach of that.  And for the record, were the mods to do their job and the users to stick on topic, this 389 pages would be more like 12.

 

[roabilly]

Cargo, I often wondered why have an election at such a very very critical timing here  esp with Sect 6 talks at an impasse   the NMB failures to do release us etc    but deep down, I seriously have to wonder what is the company gonna do next....   esp like this:   After the elections, will the company offer a secondary POS deal  or will the NMB release us before then or right around the election    I think these and some other questions need to be looked at and answered

With Negotiations taking three to four years... the odds are, you are going to have an election, possibly even TWO during that time frame.

 

[ograc]

I try to read this forum at LEAST weekly, often daily.  The off topic postings have gotten out of hand.  The personal oneupmanship pissing contests, libelous charges, and flat out childish arguing has gotten FAR too out out of control.  Also out of control is the moderators failure to moderate (though I pay no money to the site, so maybe I have no right to complain).  Overall, the active users disgust me.  You have far more interest in personal battles in a forum about US FSAs then about US FSAs.

necrigrad,
I would hope your remarks about having far more interest in personal battles is not directed at me. I believe this forum should be related to issues the Fleet Service at US is facing. It should be a forum that is condusive of building solidarity. I suggested, in a previous post, a seperate thread be established for politics and candidate debate. We need to seperate one from the other. 

 

[roabilly]

necrigrad,
I would hope your remarks about having far more interest in personal battles is not directed at me. I believe this forum should be related to issues the Fleet Service at US is facing. It should be a forum that is condusive of building solidarity. I suggested, in a previous post, a seperate thread be established for politics and candidate debate. We need to seperate one from the other. 

Cargo,
 
This is a public forum, accessible to ANYBODY including Company Officials. This forum would be the very LAST place I would suggest attempting to create a platform for solidarity building. The Company reads it, and knows your every move and thought! It would be like the U.S. Marines sending their full battle plans, schematics, and chronology to any potential enemy PRIOR to attacking them! I’m pretty sure you understand that concept don’t you?
 
Second, even if you created two forums, one that is political, and one for solidarity, how would you determine the validity of the posters? How would you know who they actually are? How would you prevent the Company from entering the forum posing as fleet Members and inserting their own agenda?
 
Solidarity is best built in the Union Halls and the Informational Meetings...
And even then... the Company has their own “scouts” that attend those meetings!

 

[roabilly]

Cargo,
 
One the other side of the coin, this forum is an absolutely PERFECT platform for solidarity weakening! Since it is public, and anonymous, you get your Joshes, and other fake posters that can throw in false information, misleading red-herring comments, and personal jabs and barbs to break legitimate posters down... it’s called PSYOPS in the Army!
 
In this particular application... the terminology would be... “GRAY PSYOPS”.... Below is a description—
(Just insert "Company" when you see the words U.S., U.S. Government, or American!)
 
Gray PSYOP
The source of the gray PSYOP product is deliberately ambiguous.
 
The true source (U.S. Government) is not revealed to the target audience. The activity engaged in plausibly appears to emanate from a non-official American source, or an indigenous, non-hostile source, or there may be no attribution.
 
Gray is that information whose content is such that the effect will be increased if the hand of the U.S. Government and in some cases any American participation are not revealed. It is simply a means for the U.S. to present viewpoints which are in the interest of U.S. foreign policy, but which will be acceptable or more acceptable to the intended target audience than will an official government statement.

 

[necigrad]

necrigrad,
I would hope your remarks about having far more interest in personal battles is not directed at me. I believe this forum should be related to issues the Fleet Service at US is facing. It should be a forum that is condusive of building solidarity. I suggested, in a previous post, a seperate thread be established for politics and candidate debate. We need to seperate one from the other. 

I think, to some extent, you are a SMALL part of the problem, but don't take that too harshly.  I'm talking more about Tim, Josh, 700, Bluto, and a few others.  They hijack the entire thread either for personal arguments or for whatever else they want.  Sadly, I don't want to advocate a ban because most of them also provide valid contribution, even if I don't always agree with it.  This is a thread about US FLEET SERVICE, not the IAM, not 700s credentials, not Tims campaigns (his for him or others against him), not WN...  These are what I actually speak of.  I legitimately come here to be informed about things I haven't heard and to hear other perspectives about what is going on with US Fleet.  I don't care about the politics; a legit argument could be made about how that affects me, but that's IAM politics, not US Fleet stuff.  When I read this forum I don't care that 700 or Josh isn't fleet, I don't care if DL141 gave UA a POS contract to get more members.  I care about what's going on with OUR negotiations.  I care about how things are done in other stations.  I care about what grievance have been won, and lost, in other stations.  I care about how a FSA was injured by doing some task, properly or not.  Everything else is a waste of bandwidth and time to me when I have to scroll past it all.  and the biggest thing that pisses me off?  Tims repeating questions like they weren't answered even though it's been made clear there will be no further answer, as well as him writing lengthy responses to questions and not answering them.

Honestly though, I shouldn't blame Tim, 700, you, or anyone else other then the mods.  Bah, just venting, move along.

 

[ograc]

Cargo,
 
This is a public forum, accessible to ANYBODY including Company Officials. This forum would be the very LAST place I would suggest attempting to create a platform for solidarity building. The Company reads it, and knows your every move and thought! It would be like the U.S. Marines sending their full battle plans, schematics, and chronology to any potential enemy PRIOR to attacking them! I’m pretty sure you understand that concept don’t you?
 
Second, even if you created two forums, one that is political, and one for solidarity, how would you determine the validity of the posters? How would you know who they actually are? How would you prevent the Company from entering the forum posing as fleet Members and inserting their own agenda?
 
Solidarity is best built in the Union Halls and the Informational Meetings...
And even then... the Company has their own “scouts” that attend those meetings!

Roa,
I completely understand and agree with your concept. Building solidarity is what is desparetely needed at this time. I believe it can be helped along on this forum without revealing battle plans and schematics. Discussion and agreement on who the common enemy is in this battle would be a good start. If we can accomplish solidarity at the union and informational meetings, along with this forum, the "scouts" would have to report back what they have witnessed. Some members on this forum have used it, quite effectively, to spread dissention and doubt. It's time to use this forum to spread common long term Fleet interests' and solidarity and to refrain from those who use it to erode the fore mentioned. 

 

[700UW]

The IAM pays him? Never thought about that.

Josh

I see you are both lying again.

 

[737823]

I see you are both lying again.

Never lied just entertaining the possibility.

Josh

 

[737823]

what does a financial man like you hate the IAM so much and hate US so much 
 
why don't you reveal what financial institution you work for on here 
 
after all some of us, notably 700 has made clear what he has done  and all  
 
those are the questions you were asked before  and never responded  yet you expect us to answer

Robbed I've directly answered all these questions before.

Josh

 

[700UW]

No you havent.
 
Once again you do exactly what you accuse others of.