2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[P. REZ]

Very interesting Jester. The PHX guys here at DFW who were outsourced keep in touch with friends who work for US in PHX and they said the IAM leadership at PHX was begging for the AA work. Not sure if it's to keep the AA guys from coming back or maybe just delaying it a while, but they said most of the US guys don't like working the AA flights cause it's a pain in the ass.

DFWFSC,
 
Not true, the only thing we said is that the outsourcing employees doing AA work were not welcome in our breakrooms. I personally would not have any problem with these guys and gals getting home to PHX where they belong but how to do so is being discussed by the International's of both the TWU and IAM. I do not have any authority to make this decision.
 
P. Rez

 

[cltrat]

US mainline agents  are taking over 2 former Eagle gates starting Monday here in CLT

 

[Jester]

Very interesting Jester. The PHX guys here at DFW who were outsourced keep in touch with friends who work for US in PHX and they said the IAM leadership at PHX was begging for the AA work. Not sure if it's to keep the AA guys from coming back or maybe just delaying it a while, but they said most of the US guys don't like working the AA flights cause it's a pain in the ass.

 
Few people like working the AA flights... they use different methods and have different safety practices, not to mention, the training required of a few days in front of a computer. The flights tend to be heavier as they are hub-to-hub flights with large numbers of connects, and the MD-80s are anything but spacious inside of the bins. Then the leads need to quickly get up to speed on their hand held devices which have recieved positive reviews, but AA's loads are more detailed by requiring exact counts in 4 different bins vs. US ability to short stack (excluding the tapers in A320 and A321).  I don't recall any "begging" for AA work, but more of a just an acceptance of little say about it.
 
 

jester  are there groups of them that are trained to work AA metal and vice versa?  

 
There are groups trained to handle AA metal, but frankly, PHX Management will be woefully behind as we are adding a large number AA flights flying traditional US routes (PHX-SNA/SEA/SJC etc.) but not enough teams to be trained.  We are also facing the reality that the B737NGs are too large for many gates with the winglets tying up the larger end terminal gates and clogging the alleys in the middle as if they were B757s. (Normally two Airbus will be pushed wing tip to wing tip.)  Even the MD80s are a problem tying up the alleys due to the wings being too low as to risk a catering truck striking one, so they are pushed to the middle, as well.  While the end gates can handle the 737s, that leaves less option for the A321s which due to the length cannot fit in many of the gates away from the end.  As the A321s are becoming the most common aircraft in our fleet, PHX operations are becoming jammed with fewer alternatives.  Frankly, US PHX facilities were designed for first generation B737s with smaller wings and a shorter fuselage are inadequate for current aircraft being acquired.

 

[Jester]

DFWFSC,
 
Not true, the only thing we said is that the outsourcing employees doing AA work were not welcome in our breakrooms. I personally would not have any problem with these guys and gals getting home to PHX where they belong but how to do so is being discussed by the International's of both the TWU and IAM. I do not have any authority to make this decision.
 
P. Rez

 
PRez,
 
Dont we already have furloughed AA guys working with US FSAs in PHX?  I thought I someone mentioned a few of them were in their recent new hire classes?

 

[Solidarity]

Mike,
I am not necessarily in the camp, I'm just tired of paying dues and not getting service. EX; No station visits, years to process grievence's, lack of information. I think the agc's get complacent and just blow off the membership. I don't believe the three that are up for re-election are worthy. Everyone keeps saying , " they have no experience ". The ones that went in had no experience when they got there either, they learned , they went to seminars at Wipinsinger in MD. Nelson could be a good thing, he goes against the grain and I don't believe he would be a yes man with Delaney, he's not afraid to put out the scoop. I've worked with three of the five agc's and know them. I know several members of the NC. I firmly believe Change is good it stimulates the process of going forward not staying in the same old rut.

Once again......I ask.  What station do you work in?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Jester,
 
Actually, AA started this in JFK and TWU employees are working our metal there. PHX was the first US station to do this work. Both the TWU and IAM have language in the contract to do so, there wasn't any agreement. Also, I believe more stations are gearing up to do the same including PHL and CLT. If your out there Charlie Brown please chime in. The goal is to get all stations to do this with both AA and US. 
 
I know that both the International of TWU and IAM have been in discussions on how to get furloughed employees from both US and AA to work kind of like what happened when we merged with US. I have several TWU guys that call me who were furloughed from PHX and I keep them informed as best I can on what I know. As a matter of fact, one called me earlier today. I am willing to get you in contact with any of them if you would like.
 
If you would like, I will get you contact information for the PHL and CLT AGC's so you can verify this information with them. All of the US AGC's talk constantly about the goings on around the system and discuss what actions need to take place if any.
 
P. Rez

You are so full of crap it's laughable.  You let management do everything out in PHX and ALL of your members know it.  Having our members go through AA training and working AA metal at reduced rates is also a joke.  The question remains, what has Delaney's team done in 6 years other than screw up contracts on every carrier?  The members want to know.
 
Bottom line is that with you management flunkies, the attendance policy was not arbitrated and everything from that point onward has been "Ill ask Management"   Nobody can tell where the union starts and management ends.  We are paying you so get up off your ass and do something, Cripes, you guys are lazy as hell and think you can just collect $100,000+ a year and become a management mouthpiece. 

 

[Tim Nelson]

Prez, please please please, whatever you do, don't F up a helping hand or bring in any flex language like wiki alludes to.  You will single handedly F up our joint talks, no matter who the AGC is.  Mark this post. I repeat, don't F things up and continue being the bobblehead that you are by saying "Yes Rich, my life for you", and finally grow some stones and stand up once in your life by standing against language that gives Ole AH exactly what he wants on flexibility with aircraft metals.  You know darn well that this company is in a real pickle about the metal unless you clowns waive off the cross fleeting like you dopes did at United.  Once you guys agreed to waive off all metal and allow cross fleeting, leverage fell like a lead balloon. 
STOP IT!

 

[BLUTO]

Once again......I ask.  What station do you work in?

ROCKIT WRK
IN ORD HE IZ
RUNIN 4 AGC
ON UFC SLTE!

 

[WeAAsles]

You are so full of crap it's laughable.  You let management do everything out in PHX and ALL of your members know it.  Having our members go through AA training and working AA metal at reduced rates is also a joke.  The question remains, what has Delaney's team done in 6 years other than screw up contracts on every carrier?  The members want to know.
 
Bottom line is that with you management flunkies, the attendance policy was not arbitrated and everything from that point onward has been "Ill ask Management"   Nobody can tell where the union starts and management ends.  We are paying you so get up off your ass and do something, Cripes, you guys are lazy as hell and think you can just collect $100,000+ a year and become a management mouthpiece. 

Tim reminds me of Chubbsie Ubsie trying to woo Miss Crabtree in the Little Rascals. I'll be Jackie Cooper then. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0yGxD6NVbc

 

[WeAAsles]

Let's clear up something before Tim tries to run away with it with his nonsense.

In regards to stations like PHX and PHL those stations under the TWU were outsourced due to the changes in our SCOPE caused by the bankruptcy. You guys are not working OUR metal at the moment because of this. You are replacing the non union vendors who are performing that work or would be if there was never any merger. It is within both of our contracts to perform FSC work or as you call it FSA work. Same thing in JFK. The metal only belongs to us if it falls within station staffing methodologies for the respective contracts. Otherwise we have a fence between us until we have a JCBA -- OR-- we BOTH agree to some type of "helping hand" agreement. 

Now I also do not agree with any "Helping Hand" agreements unless there was something very substantial given in return. Let's say something like what the APFA have which is a fast track bargaining agreement which says that by a specific date if the Union and Company don't reach an agreement it will revert to a third party arbitrator for settlement.

Either way I much prefer UNION members performing this work rather than non union third party rejects. Wouldn't you agree?  

 

[WeAAsles]

You are so full of crap it's laughable.  You let management do everything out in PHX and ALL of your members know it.  Having our members go through AA training and working AA metal at reduced rates is also a joke.  The question remains, what has Delaney's team done in 6 years other than screw up contracts on every carrier?  The members want to know.

It is in your contract to perform FSA work period! If the company contracted to perform work for say Quatar airlines you would also be performing that work.

But if you take Mr Nelsons quote here with some thought I guess he's saying that he doesn't want you to perform the work? He would prefer you don't have those jobs or extra money I guess?

Ridiculous.
 
 
Bottom line is that with you management flunkies, the attendance policy was not arbitrated and everything from that point onward has been "Ill ask Management"   Nobody can tell where the union starts and management ends.  We are paying you so get up off your ass and do something, Cripes, you guys are lazy as hell and think you can just collect $100,000+ a year and become a management mouthpiece. 

Throw the same tired mantra out there enough and maybe it will stick on someones wall huh Tim? And aren't you trying to get back to making that 100K again too? Crikey.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Few people like working the AA flights... they use different methods and have different safety practices, not to mention, the training required of a few days in front of a computer. The flights tend to be heavier as they are hub-to-hub flights with large numbers of connects, and the MD-80s are anything but spacious inside of the bins. Then the leads need to quickly get up to speed on their hand held devices which have recieved positive reviews, but AA's loads are more detailed by requiring exact counts in 4 different bins vs. US ability to short stack (excluding the tapers in A320 and A321).  I don't recall any "begging" for AA work, but more of a just an acceptance of little say about it.

Whether you like the work or not doesn't matter. At the moment it's yours and you should be happy you have it. I would of course rather see our guys back in the mix there with you but until that happens UNION men are performing that work rather than sub contracted bumpkins. I'm glad about that.

As for different ways of doing things we all better get used to that. Changes are coming for all and you can't wish them away.

Ramp Links and T Links are going to be universal in every station eventually.
 
 
 
 
There are groups trained to handle AA metal, but frankly, PHX Management will be woefully behind as we are adding a large number AA flights flying traditional US routes (PHX-SNA/SEA/SJC etc.) but not enough teams to be trained.  We are also facing the reality that the B737NGs are too large for many gates with the winglets tying up the larger end terminal gates and clogging the alleys in the middle as if they were B757s. (Normally two Airbus will be pushed wing tip to wing tip.)  Even the MD80s are a problem tying up the alleys due to the wings being too low as to risk a catering truck striking one, so they are pushed to the middle, as well.  While the end gates can handle the 737s, that leaves less option for the A321s which due to the length cannot fit in many of the gates away from the end.  As the A321s are becoming the most common aircraft in our fleet, PHX operations are becoming jammed with fewer alternatives.  Frankly, US PHX facilities were designed for first generation B737s with smaller wings and a shorter fuselage are inadequate for current aircraft being acquired.

 

[WeAAsles]

DFWFSC,
 
Not true, the only thing we said is that the outsourcing employees doing AA work were not welcome in our breakrooms. I personally would not have any problem with these guys and gals getting home to PHX where they belong but how to do so is being discussed by the International's of both the TWU and IAM. I do not have any authority to make this decision.
 
P. Rez

I have heard that an agreement has been reached that will afford some the ability to return to their former stations. I believe we are waiting for the company to sign off on that agreement now?

It can't come soon enough as there are people who are willing to return under almost any circumstances and we are hiring on both sides of the pond. We have hired 100 here in MIA and are expecting about 100 more.

 

[WeAAsles]

Very interesting Jester. The PHX guys here at DFW who were outsourced keep in touch with friends who work for US in PHX and they said the IAM leadership at PHX was begging for the AA work. Not sure if it's to keep the AA guys from coming back or maybe just delaying it a while, but they said most of the US guys don't like working the AA flights cause it's a pain in the ass.

Pain in the ass work is better than no work. Take it for what it is.

 

[WeAAsles]

jester  are there groups of them that are trained to work AA metal and vice versa?  

By FAA rules they would have to be trained on how to work the metal as specified in the Line Cargo Manual. Otherwise the company could incur some hefty fines.