2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[Solidarity]

Of course Tim was "monumentally" wrong. From what we've seen about him that's usually the case and it's because he always put's his "personal" campaign before the thoughts of the members he wants to represent.

Good point on "Scope" It could be difficult to convince the company to subsidize members making $25 per hour in some stations where they aren't generating the revenue to afford those rates? Unless the people flying out of those stations are transferring on to other destinations that can support the origin city.

The other problem I think I see is the Part Time issue. PTers pay double the medical to support subsidized lower rate medical for FTers in the IAM contract, where thankfully we do not in our TWU contract. I don't think morally that's right and it creates a situation where the company would prefer to have PT employees over FT for the cost savings. I have to wonder what the final outcome is going to be when we all get to vote on a JCBA?

An employee who was FT prior to April 5, 1999 and displaced to PT (not of their choosing) does have the guarantee of paying the FT rates for medical. CBA, Article 3, p.7
Not sure how THAT date was established but it does help some who are adversely affected.

 

[Rook]

The IAM uses DOH into the classification, that is what is in the SIL agreement with the TWU.
 
I have been through three mergers as an IAM represented employee at US and never lost a day's seniority.
 
Your issue deals back to the fence agreement when the ramp went union and above wing didnt.

Thanks for response 700UW but the IAM fleet does not use DOH as my date of entry into classification is my DOH but ive lost 13 months which has caused me to get furlough twice, I went before some others that there DOH was 6 months to 1 year after my DOH!

 

[charlie Brown]

Good grief Charlie Brown, well, let's just stick with telling the truth first before half truths, ok?  If page 38 doesn't give up anything then it wouldn't exist since it concedes things that we currently enjoy and won't lose unless this TA passes, which it will.    The reality is that ACA will hit us and this LOA will become active, leaving us wide open. 
 
At any rate, I want you to answer, is this LOA a concession or a benefit?  Yes or No?
 
Carry on.

Tim
First lets clarify some things. You even said in a earlier post that Tom Regen and the IAM was the one that negotiated our current insurance. Yes? So let's give Tom Regen and the IAM some credit that we have insurance good enough to even be having this debate. I mean if we currently had the AA 80% insurance and that was it, we wouldnt even be discussing this excise tax for 2018 would we? So let's be glad we are in a position to debate this because of such a good insurance plan that it may go " Cadillac status" in 2018. And like I said before, it's only the individual plan that goes over the cap that this applies to. If none of them go over the cap, then the letter doesn't even apply. And as far as answering your question with a yes or no? Lol. Read your question again Tim. It's not a question for a yes or no answer. But since you asked, ok my answer is Yes! Now figure out which one I mean yes to. Lol

 

[wings396]

CB, while we've got you on here taking questions, I have one for you. Why in this day and age are we at the IAM unable to vote electronically? This has been a major topic of discussion among many of us. It's pretty tough to understand how we can take a survey online, yet the IAM still uses this antiquated voting system. I'm sure that you are well aware that many commute to work, and aren't going to be in their station to vote for the contract. Looking like you may be losing a fair amount of voters due to this issue.

 

[charlie Brown]

CB, while we've got you on here taking questions, I have one for you. Why in this day and age are we at the IAM unable to vote electronically? This has been a major topic of discussion among many of us. It's pretty tough to understand how we can take a survey online, yet the IAM still uses this antiquated voting system. I'm sure that you are well aware that many commute to work, and aren't going to be in their station to vote for the contract. Looking like you may be losing a fair amount of voters due to this issue.

Wings
I totally agree with you. One of the things we need to do better ( and yes there is more than one ) is get into the 21st century on how we do some things. Voting is just one issue. I'm not sure why we aren't there yet. I can tell you this will be discussed at future eboard meetings, as many of us feel the same way.

 

[WeAAsles]

talk about half truths...
 
this letter of agreement is in force whether we vote yes to this TA or we dont... The negotiations committee didnt negotiate this. that was delaney.  so you can vote no on a TA that you seem to  agree with everything except this letter of agreement.. 
 
or you can vote yes and stop being a thorn in everyones side or you can vote  no and sit there and sulk but whatever you do.. this LOA is in force
 
and it does nothing till 2018... when the ACA affects us...
 
so stop being a blow hard about something you are blowing way way out of proportion... 

The issue that Tim doesn't seem to grasp is inflation affects all of us. The price of goods and services goes up every year. For too long we have basically been left on the sidelines waiting for our pay to at least catch up. With the TA you have in front of you that's now going to happen. Immediately upon ratification you guys will be getting a $320.00 per month (Before Taxes) bump in base pay. Looking at the 2015 Industry averaging that is currently available factoring in UAL's rate and DL's (current) rate, I see an increase from right now of "roughly" $4.50 per hour on 9/12/17 bringing the total to $720.00 per month (Before Taxes)

This also does not factor in any of the possibilities of further gains in a JCBA that I'd like to think will be achieved and in effect prior to 2017?

When you factor this in what Tim is doing is making a mountain out of a molehill. And I also think Charlie Brown did a great job in explaining the letter and what it's intention is.

As fitness and wellness programs kick in and more people take part in the ACA the prices should start to drop in the future? Part of it is also designed to stop frivolous use of the medical system, (Little Johnny has a hangnail, let's take him to the Doctor) What we should do is not read into the negative connotation of people who like to call it Obamacare and give it it's true name "The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act"

 

[WeAAsles]

Wings
I totally agree with you. One of the things we need to do better ( and yes there is more than one ) is get into the 21st century on how we do some things. Voting is just one issue. I'm not sure why we aren't there yet. I can tell you this will be discussed at future eboard meetings, as many of us feel the same way.

CB this is another issue that we really need to begin to think about in the future. Better updating of progress and communicating back to the membership on contract talks with the company. As much as I disagree with the agenda of the AMFA crowd, I have to admit they do a great job at keeping their members informed. I think that's an area that the association really needs to work on as it progresses in the future.

Here's the latest update from the APFA

https://www.apfa.org/hotline/hotline-archives-for-2014/july-2014-hotlines/3194-7-03-14

 

[roabilly]

The issue that Tim doesn't seem to grasp is inflation affects all of us. The price of goods and services goes up every year. For too long we have basically been left on the sidelines waiting for our pay to at least catch up. With the TA you have in front of you that's now going to happen. Immediately upon ratification you guys will be getting a $320.00 per month (Before Taxes) bump in base pay. Looking at the 2015 Industry averaging that is currently available factoring in UAL's rate and DL's (current) rate, I see an increase from right now of "roughly" $4.50 per hour on 9/12/17 bringing the total to $720.00 per month (Before Taxes)

This also does not factor in any of the possibilities of further gains in a JCBA that I'd like to think will be achieved and in effect prior to 2017?

When you factor this in what Tim is doing is making a mountain out of a molehill. And I also think Charlie Brown did a great job in explaining the letter and what it's intention is.

As fitness and wellness programs kick in and more people take part in the ACA the prices should start to drop in the future? Part of it is also designed to stop frivolous use of the medical system, (Little Johnny has a hangnail, let's take him to the Doctor) What we should do is not read into the negative connotation of people who like to call it Obamacare and give it it's true name "The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act"

You are correct WeAAsles-- In the very near future, JCBA talks will “set the stage” for the future of Airline Collective Bargaining. What comes from that agreement may very well reverberate throughout the Industry. The new AA will be the largest, and presumably most profitable carrier, and it will be watched closely by Wall Street, and Labor alike. This section 6 Tentative should be viewed as a stepping stone to the JCBA.
 
As far as the LOA regarding healthcare plans, it is NOT a compromise, it is a reality that every Company in the United States has... or will have to address it to meet Federal Guidelines. Every single Labor Group will have a similar letter in their agreement-- If not, the Fleet letter dies! As Charlie Brown said ... the IAM has negotiated some of the best Health Insurance plans in the Country!

 

[700UW]

Thanks for response 700UW but the IAM fleet does not use DOH as my date of entry into classification is my DOH but ive lost 13 months which has caused me to get furlough twice, I went before some others that there DOH was 6 months to 1 year after my DOH!

Did you not ready my post?
 
Yours is due to the fence agreement and everyone who started part-time lost half, I started on the ramp, I had a hire date, a classification date on the ramp, an adjusted date when I went into Utility as my part-time is cut in half, and I have a utility date, and a stores date.

 

[charlie Brown]

CB this is another issue that we really need to begin to think about in the future. Better updating of progress and communicating back to the membership on contract talks with the company. As much as I disagree with the agenda of the AMFA crowd, I have to admit they do a great job at keeping their members informed. I think that's an area that the association really needs to work on as it progresses in the future.
Here's the latest update from the APFA
https://www.apfa.org/hotline/hotline-archives-for-2014/july-2014-hotlines/3194-7-03-14

WeAAsles
While I think we should always continue to try to improve communications for the membership, we did do a similar update on negotiations on our website at www.iam141.org. But the problem with communicating about negotiations. Too many updates can be frustrating to the membership, because there are many times when there is nothing new to post, this gets frustrating to the membership just to keep reading the same things many times. But I here ya. Like I said. We need to get into the 21st century on some things.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles
While I think we should always continue to try to improve communications for the membership, we did do a similar update on negotiations on our website at www.iam141.org. But the problem with communicating about negotiations. Too many updates can be frustrating to the membership, because there are many times when there is nothing new to post, this gets frustrating to the membership just to keep reading the same things many times. But I here ya. Like I said. We need to get into the 21st century on some things.

Good point CB. I've had my fair share of the frustrated members since I follow the process very closely. Just a suggestion to pass up the chain. Maybe we can have a list of all articles posted in the future and as each article has reached a TA it can be checked off as so? You guys may have already been doing that in the past? Details of each TA of course shouldn't be posted as it absolutely compromises the process but it can gauge a good measure of the progress being made.

 

[roabilly]

CB this is another issue that we really need to begin to think about in the future. Better updating of progress and communicating back to the membership on contract talks with the company. As much as I disagree with the agenda of the AMFA crowd, I have to admit they do a great job at keeping their members informed. I think that's an area that the association really needs to work on as it progresses in the future.

Here's the latest update from the APFA

https://www.apfa.org/hotline/hotline-archives-for-2014/july-2014-hotlines/3194-7-03-14

The Pilots Union, and the Flight Attendants Union, used to have, and may still have an automated phone system that each member had to enter their book numbers into to receive pre-recorded updates from their respective Unions regarding Negotiations Progress...
 
Perhaps, something like the automated messages and/or something akin to the APFA link, would help to inform everyone in Fleet on progress, or lack of progress in real time...

 

[WeAAsles]

An employee who was FT prior to April 5, 1999 and displaced to PT (not of their choosing) does have the guarantee of paying the FT rates for medical. CBA, Article 3, p.7
Not sure how THAT date was established but it does help some who are adversely affected.

Thanks for the info Solidarity. Much like a probationary period I can understand having a particular date attached to individual improvements as members climb the seniority ladder. It's a "You need to pay your dues" methodology throughout the union structure. But in the future I'd like to see a point in time whether the member is FT or PT when the dues have been paid and all members have reached parity with their peers.

My buddy left AA and became a Court Officer for NY State about 6 years ago. He was on levels of Probation for 5 years before enjoying all the benefits his contract had to offer. I heard the Post Office had or has the same 5 year probation?  

 

[NYer]

Good grief Charlie Brown, well, let's just stick with telling the truth first before half truths, ok?  If page 38 doesn't give up anything then it wouldn't exist since it concedes things that we currently enjoy and won't lose unless this TA passes, which it will.    The reality is that ACA will hit us and this LOA will become active, leaving us wide open. 
 
At any rate, I want you to answer, is this LOA a concession or a benefit?  Yes or No?
 
Carry on.

You're worried and even considering how to vote based on a letter made necessary by a Federal law and doesn't even enter the landscape until 2018?

Your concern should be on how to convince an airline to offer that same type of plan to another 50,000 employees that just came out of BK in which one of the biggest cost savings achieved was done through modification of the healthcare coverage. They are also presently studying whether they will continue to pursue even more changes or modifications towards the retiree's.

You seem to have a loss in perspective or your DNA that triggers opposition is misfiring.

 

[charlie Brown]

Good point CB. I've had my fair share of the frustrated members since I follow the process very closely. Just a suggestion to pass up the chain. Maybe we can have a list of all articles posted in the future and as each article has reached a TA it can be checked off as so? You guys may have already been doing that in the past? Details of each TA of course shouldn't be posted as it absolutely compromises the process but it can gauge a good measure of the progress being made.

That's a possability with the articles. The only problem I see with that, is in the beginning of negotiation both sides sign an agreement that any article that has a t/a can at anytime be opened back up by either party. So not sure how accurate the info would be, since it would be subject for change up to the time of the whole agreement being agreed to. This was just one reason once the T/a was announced it took awhile to get out. Some articles we may have t/a'd more than one time due to changes. So we had to go back and make sure of the most recent changes and all.