2014 Pilot Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

 

 
Hey mart, (future non volunteer, pro bona rep, of the former america west pilots)
 
You lost every court case when you represented  the west pilots.  How appropriate that  your new office address is a place paid for by the west pilots.
 
Are there any other requirements, in your fantasy conditional surrender document  for the East plots, that Judge Silver attempted to dicta tate for you?
 
"""MARTY HARPER PLLC
12817 North 14th Drive
Phoenix, Arizona 85029
46787816.6
 
January 21, 2014 Marty Harper
(602) 738-8007
mharperpllc@gmail.com
Via Electronic Mail
 
Brian O’Dwyer
General Counsel, USAPA
O’Dwyer & Bernstien, LLP
Paul O’Dwyer Way
52 Duane Street
New York, New York 1007
bodwyer@odblaw.com
Re: Seniority Integration Process
 
Brian,
 
Judge Silver’s order unequivocally finds that the certified bargaining representative for
the West Pilots, whether it be USAPA or APA, must “‘make every effort to see that [the West
Pilots’] are given extensive consideration, and that their interests are fully and fairly represented’
during seniority integration.” Order at 21:9 to 21:10 (Doc. 298). Although she narrowly found
that USAPA did not breach the duty of fair representation owed to the West Pilots in agreeing to
the MOU, she cautioned that USAPA’s current position on its ability to represent East and West
Pilots in the upcoming seniority integration process with American is “unwise” and that she has
“serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent” the West Pilots. Id. at 20-21.
 
Once again, we urge USAPA to act as a responsible union and acknowledge the inherent conflict
it has with the West Pilots on the issue of seniority. As Judge Silver clearly understood,
USAPA’s appointment of two West Pilots to its Merger Committee does not satisfy its
obligations to the West Pilots or somehow negate the inherent conflict between USAPA and the
West Pilots on the issue of seniority.
 
The West Pilots maintain, as they have since the MOU was ratified, that the only way
they can be “fully and fairly represented” in any seniority integration process is by an
independent committee of their own choosing.
 
As detailed in our initial memorandum to the Court regarding McCaskill-Bond, filed last
May, the West Pilots propose that USAPA establish separate East and West merger committees
to arbitrate the seniority of former US Airways pilots. A decision by a neutral arbitrator, with
each side represented by a committee and counsel of their own choosing, is the only way for
USAPA’s to satisfy its DFR obligations to the West Pilots.
 
Accordingly, the West Pilots propose the following specifics for this arbitration:
 
1. The parties to this arbitration shall be a committee of 3 to 5 East Pilots
appointed by USAPA or the East BPR members to represent East Pilot
interests (the “East Committee”) and a committee of 3-5 pilots appointed by
the three Phoenix BPR Members – John Scherff, David Simmons and
Roger Velez to represent the West Pilot interest (the “West Committee”).
 
2. USAPA shall bear all expenses of both sides in this arbitration process
equally, including payment of the arbitrator’s fees and expenses, reasonable
attorneys’ fees,
 
3. The outcome of this arbitration shall be final and binding on all parties, and
any successors to such parties that come about through merger, change of
bargaining representative, or union election. In addition, pursuant to the
MOU, the outcome of this arbitration shall be final and binding without
being put to a ratification vote by USAPA’s membership or USAPA’s
Board of Pilot Representatives.
 
4. The arbitration ground rules shall be as follows:
 
a. Issue: “In connection with the 2005 Transition Agreement and the
McCaskill-Bond process for integration of the US Airways and
American pilots described in Paragraph 10 of the Memorandum Of
Understanding Regarding Contingent Collective Bargaining
Agreement (“MOU”),

b. Arbitrator’s Jurisdiction: The arbitrator’s jurisdiction shall be limited
to selecting one of the two options
 
c. Arbitration Procedures: Except as provided otherwise below, the
arbitration procedures shall be consistent, to the greatest extent
possible, with the procedures set forth in MOU Paragraph 20.
i. Parties/Participants: The parties shall be the West Committee,
as represented by counsel of their choice, the East Committee
as represented by counsel of their choice, and New American
to the extent that it needs to protect its rights under the TA or
the MOU. The Allied Pilots Association shall have observer
status.
 

 
 
 
 
 
 


integration.” Id. at 21:11-to 21:12. We are confident that neither APA nor New American will
assist USAPA in violating a court order or otherwise breaching its duty of fair representation to
the West Pilots.
 
. The West Pilots, therefore, urge USAPA to proceed in the manner proposed
herein. Nothing contained in this letter is a waiver of the West Pilots’ rights to appeal Judge
Silver’s ruling.
 
We look forward to an early, positive response.
 
Very Truly Yours,
 
Marty Harper"""
 
cc: Ed James, ejames@jamhoff.com
Bob Siegel, rsiegel@omm.com
Chris Hollinger, chollinger@omm.com
Andy Jacob, ajacob@polsinelli.com
Jennifer Axel, jaxel@polsinelli.com

 

How ridiculous, Judge Silver can doubt all she wants, If she could have done it she would have ordered and not scolded. The T/A was voted away with all the terms tied (NIC)  to it. The 9th has affirmed, you don't know what a final product will be, and AA will surely will not invite a non named member of the MOU to the table under risk of ending up in federal court for violation of the M/B legislation. 

 

[nevergiveup]

USAPA represents one group of pilots and two lists. I'm betting that on March 9th, you'll see a formula agreed upon that will be applied to every APA and USAPA pilot. This formula, be it DOH, LOS, RP, or a combination of such, will determine the new seniority. Read it and weep for east, west, and APA. We can all then cry on this board about how we were screwed.
 
Don't worry, be happy!   I pick Denver.

 

[Phoenix]

USAPA represents one group of pilots and two lists. I'm betting that on March 9th, you'll see a formula agreed upon that will be applied to every APA and USAPA pilot. This formula, be it DOH, LOS, RP, or a combination of such, will determine the new seniority. Read it and weep for east, west, and APA. We can all then cry on this board about how we were screwed.
 
Don't worry, be happy!   I pick Denver.

 
 
Nothing ever seems to happen too fast, and we always are told to watch for the second shoe to drop but it never seems to happen.... Thing always seem to drag on and on and on, once change officially occurs it is always old news. 

 

[dca319]

Here comes useless idiot ...... Again! The ONLY pilot who attended the Harper/Jacobs school of how to make really useless arguments with no basis in FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW and LOSE.
Here is the real FACT in testimony under penalty of perjury.
Jes Pauley:
"Q. Does the Merger Committee have a position with respect to the issue in this case concerning separate representation of a group of West Pilots?
A. Yes.
Q. And what is that position?
A. We don't believe that it's necessary to have separate representation for the West Pilots.
Q. Is that a position that is held by each of the members of the committee?
A. Yes. It's unanimous. All of the members of the merger committee oppose a separate seat at the table for West Pilots.
Q. And that includes Captain Stravers and Mr. Calveri?
A. Yes.
AOL sunk it's own ship and that will come out in the NEXT trial.
CM is truly so inept that past this point I will no longer waste any time on the forum refuting his insanity.

So Jes, on behalf of Stravers and Calveri, says they were on board? Did Stravers and Calveri testify to this fact themselves? Their resignation letter seems to indicate otherwise.

Jes must have misunderstood their position. Looks like this evidence goes right into the shitter.

 

[Bill Brasky]

So Jes, on behalf of Stravers and Calveri, says they were on board? Did Stravers and Calveri testify to this fact themselves? Their resignation letter seems to indicate otherwise.

Jes must have misunderstood their position. Looks like this evidence goes right into the shitter.

Maybe they're just liars, like you.
 
Now that they're gone we can move things along.  USAPA's lawyers can write threatening letters, too. The only difference is that they have the law on their side.

 

[dca319]

USAPA represents one group of pilots and two lists. I'm betting that on March 9th, you'll see a formula agreed upon that will be applied to every APA and USAPA pilot. This formula, be it DOH, LOS, RP, or a combination of such, will determine the new seniority. Read it and weep for east, west, and APA. We can all then cry on this board about how we were screwed.
 
Don't worry, be happy!   I pick Denver.

No chance on DOH being anywhere near SLI. But we agree on one thing: DEN by 2.

 

[dca319]

Maybe they're just liars, like you.
 
Now that they're gone we can move things along.  USAPA's lawyers can write threatening letters, too. The only difference is that they have the law on their side.

You mean Silver's decision? Ya, that's some ammo.

 

[luvthe9]

Ah yes, another glorious day on the board with of west friends, it's to bad this is all winding down.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Actually, both of Silver's decisions, plus the one from the Ninth circuit.
 
No Nic.  It will be some formula including slotting and LOS.  Count on it.  Now, there is no impediment to progress.

 

[dca319]

Actually, both of Silver's decisions, plus the one from the Ninth circuit.
 
No Nic.  It will be some formula including slotting and LOS.  Count on it.  Now, there is no impediment to progress.

The impediment that's left is USAPA and that's being taken care of by the APA.

 

[snapthis]

It's hammer time if any list other than the arbitrated one is presented by the DOHlts from the East pilot union.

I don't see the APA inheriting USAPA's problems.

Their response will most likely be:

Can't touch this. Link

 

[dca319]

Looks like Jes' testimony regarding the west members was inaccurate.

Merger Committee Update

The two West members of our Merger Committee have resigned. At a meeting on January 29, 2014, our entire Committee met in Washington in an attempt to resolve our differences on what lists to work with as we proceed with the Seniority List Integration (SLI). As you know, our Committee is tasked with protecting the seniority of all USAPA pilots, East and West. While this Committee has always had differences regarding the equity and fairness of the unmodified Nicolau award, the West members have always told us they would consider other methods of integration once the courts ruled. They gave that assurance at the time they were appointed to the Committee and reaffirmed that commitment after their appointments. Now that the Federal Court in Phoenix, AZ has determined USAPA is not obligated to submit the Nicolau Award's Integrated Seniority List (ISL) as the premerger seniority list for US Airways pilots, the West members have reneged on their prior assurance and refuse to consider alternative methods for achieving an ISL with the American pilots. During the meeting, the East members repeatedly offered to have them review and consider a series of potential SLI methods. However, they stated the unmodified Nicolau award is the only list they would consider. We have, of course, considered the unmodified Nicolau list and our thorough review clearly demonstrates that it doesnt satisfy the fair and equitable requirements of McCaskill-Bond, nor is it fair for our pilot group as a whole.

The West members offered as a solution, that they be assigned to a West-only committee to advocate for the unmodified Nicolau award. The East members do not have the ability to approve or disapprove that request, but we told them we would present that request to the BPR. The next morning, before we had the chance to present this request to the BPR, they abruptly resigned via email in a letter (click here) that contained numerous inaccuracies.

The East committee members have consistently tried to engage the West committee members as we work toward a fair and equitable list, but we could not persuade them to consider alternative methodologies for seniority integration. During this meeting on the 29th, they made it clear they would only consider the unmodified Nicolau award. That unreasonable stance cannot serve the interests of all US Airways pilots and does not fulfill the duties of our Committee or USAPAs Duty of Fair Representation to all US Airways pilots. All proposals made by this Committee must be, and will be fair for all pilots; not just West pilots and not just East pilots.We are continuously working toward a fair and equitable list which we will present as our case. At this time, nothing more has been decided beyond our conclusion that the unmodified Nicolau list is not an option. Regrettably, in spite of our effort to salvage their participation, in a letter to President Hummel, (click here) Chairman Pauley recommended he accept their resignation due to their unreasonable and inflexible stance.

Meaningful participation of any Merger Committee member requires the ability to be open-minded in order to explore and consider many aspects of how the lists may eventually be merged. If West participation on our Committee is limited to unwavering and unreasonable commitment to the unmodified Nicolau list, it obstructs our desire, goal, and ability to reach a fair and equitable SLI as required by McCaskill -Bond. Particularly after two court decisions holding to the contrary, continued strident pursuit for imposition of the Nicolau list is a disservice to all of our pilots.

It is our desire to have West members on our Committee who are committed to the McCaskill-Bond goals of a fair and equitable SLI for all US Airways and American pilots. If any West pilot feels they can make that commitment to work with us toward that goal, we would welcome them to the Committee. In the meantime, we will continue the work for a fair and equitable SLI for all pilots of the new American Airlines.

Jess Pauley, Tom Kubik, Kevin Barry, Bob Davidson

 

[snapthis]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It looks like y'all have a problem.

Poor Jess, Tom, Kevin and Bob have nobody's careers to play with.

 

[Phoenix]

You mean Silver's decision? Ya, that's some ammo.

No. He said the law. Ya know the thing that forced her to twice rule in both USAPA's and the company's favor, her personal displeasure notwithstanding.

 

[Bill Brasky]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It looks like y'all have a problem.

Nope.  They resigned.
 
If the APA is all about giving the westies everything they want, why the need to send all the threatening letters?
 
You clowns are hopeless.