2014 Pilot Discussion

[Keroseneuser]

End of Alpa,    I know what you are saying.  But right now NIC is dead.    And if we use the lists as they are today the NIC will stay dead, the east will go into the apa merger with its attrition and widebodies intact.      Getting creative with the lists prior to the integration process with APA I think is just asking for trouble.     NIC is dead,  I say let it stay dead and rot,  do not even give the AOL types anything to even file against,  anything we give them to file against from this point on will only help their cause and delay integration with APA in my opinion.
 
P.S. Don't get me wrong,   I am really glad to be rid of seeing Prechills countdown clocks and Rez's psychotic outbursts.  We need to keep it that way.

 

[A320 Driver]

I have to agree with calloway here.    It appears this ruling will finally put the NIC question to rest.   If USAPA goes in with the 2 US lists as they appear today and represent both lists equally with the same protections for both I think we can get through it pretty quick.   East and west keep what they brought in and something can be worked out.   If USAPA comes up with some weird combined list to present to APA that can only lead to problems.
 
Follow the MOU, use the lists as they currently appear, and protect the PHX base just as they do any of the east bases.    Do that and the NIC is dead and gone,  anything other than that and we (east) invite legal problems.    After 9 years of this crap that is the last thing we need going into a merger with a 10000 pilot strong APA.     
 
Just my opinion of course.   Some on here probably won't like my opinion,  but I think the best call is the one that will ensure the NIC is never mentioned again and everybody goes into the merger with APA based on how the lists looked on December 9th 2013,  not 2005

I couldn't agree more. I read the order and it is full of warnings. It was a win for USAPA but barely so. Now is the time to be smart...if that's possible, and not further dilute the West groups seniority. They are entitled to a number that will justify their current positions without artificially propping them up.
 
Maybe the PHX reps or the horsepower behind AOL will be more willing to talk and work something out. It's time...

 

[Piedmont1984]

USAPA has only one list. I have a copy of it. It is the ONLY list that USAPA has LEGALLY submitted to the company. That is also a fact.

The MOU post dates the list previously submitted to the company by USAPA. The MOU refers to the LISTS (multiple) currently IN EFFECT (not proposed). The MOU displaces, supersedes, renders a nullity, all that came before.

 

[luvthe9]

Where's the contract that contains that single list?
 
Are you saying that  USAPA can unilaterally change the senior list when ever it sees fit?
 
Changes to the seniority list have to be negotiated in the context of a contract.

Senior list? Take a break.

 

[ROACLT]

Silver is a politician that is all over the place until she has to actually get back into the role of a judge and write a narrow and accurate order with her signature immediately below.  The dicta is her political sand box, so to speak.  
 
There is no legal document that gives the old ALPA process any continuance.

She may have been writing to give some cover to west lawyers. Lawsuits abound.

 

[PullUp]

Sorry, just got home. Have to add my "Wooooo Hoooooo!!!!" to the board.
Whew.
What's next?
Cheers.

 

[traderjake]

I sure?
 
Senior list? Take a break.

 
I lucky to have a personal assistant as attentive as you. 😀

 

[Phoenix]

I agree Silver should have tossed from the get go. Did she really think that she would overrule her own previous order?

Of course I think the results could have been different if AOL filed outside of the Ninth's jurisdiction. Perhaps with judge Conrad in NC who was already familiar with USAPA fuzzy view on federal law.

If both APA and USAPA go into the SLI process with three separate lists and agree on a general framework of slotting by equipment and status, this could be done with reasonably cool heads leading a pilot group that will accept the good with the bad that may come from that. If USAPA demands DOH, then it goes to arbitration IMO and I wouldn't give east pilots much of chance of getting what they want given their repeated disregard for the rulings of arbitrators.

 
 
Yeah, things could have been different.  A lot different.  😀

 

[Phoenix]

She may have been writing to give some cover to west lawyers. Lawsuits abound.

 
 
Yes, cover for west lawyers... and for herself too.   She said it was ripe at the beginning of the trial and then at the end said she had no new seniority list.    Its a terrible shame how much money and effort went to funding this excursion.  

 

[end_of_alpa]

She may have been writing to give some cover to west lawyers. Lawsuits abound.

Now there's the truth of it!

 

[end_of_alpa]

End of Alpa,    I know what you are saying.  But right now NIC is dead.    And if we use the lists as they are today the NIC will stay dead, the east will go into the apa merger with its attrition and widebodies intact.      Getting creative with the lists prior to the integration process with APA I think is just asking for trouble.     NIC is dead,  I say let it stay dead and rot,  do not even give the AOL types anything to even file against,  anything we give them to file against from this point on will only help their cause and delay integration with APA in my opinion.
 
P.S. Don't get me wrong,   I am really glad to be rid of seeing Prechills countdown clocks and Rez's psychotic outbursts.  We need to keep it that way.

They don't have any East West "lists" anymore. They have data. Both APA and USAPA have DATA. If and when USAPA and APA negotiate they each propose to the other how their respective "lists" should be put together. To form THE LIST...THE ONE LIST. If they agree they send it out for ratification. If it doesn't pass it goes to arbitration. Remember, USAPA just scored a BIG WIN with Silver. Her "speculation" on USAPA losing party status if and when the NMB rules on single carrier status for representational purposes is shear speculation at best. Even she admits that MB is too new to have much case law written on it. Rest assured I think the Supreme Court will weigh in on this one.

 

[Phoenix]

They don't have any East West "lists" anymore. They have data. Both APA and USAPA have DATA. If and when USAPA and APA negotiate they each propose to the other how their respective "lists" should be put together. To form THE LIST...THE ONE LIST. If they agree they send it out for ratification. If it doesn't pass it goes to arbitration. Remember, USAPA just scored a BIG WIN with Silver. Her "speculation" on USAPA losing party status if and when the NMB rules on single carrier status for representational purposes is shear speculation at best. Even she admits that MB is too new to have much case law written on it. Rest assured I think the Supreme Court will weigh in on this one.

 
 
The West will never get any return on their investment.   The East pension lawsuit has a better chance of a ROI, and that one is "zero"  

 

[crazystnic]

To Bean and any other moderate west pilots, I say , we should of talked this out long ago. 
To the west pilots, Scherf, Ferguson, Koontz..etc.  who wanted to deny me the ability to take my rightful seat from Our Captains, Not take your PHX capt slots, I say Kiss My ***

 

[end_of_alpa]

Dicta: "And when USAPA is no longer the certified representative, it must immediately stop participating in the seniority integration."

Order: "Accordingly,
IT IS ORDERED the Motion for Preliminary Injunction (Doc. 13) is DENIED AS MOOT.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motions for Summary Judgment (Docs. 211, 212) are DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion for Directed Verdict (Doc. 239) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Include Declaration of Gary Hummel (Doc. 256) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Strike (Doc. 257) is GRANTED IN PART AND DENIED IN PART. Mr. Hummel's declaration, and the portions of subsequent filings that cite to it, are STRICKEN but it is not necessary to strike USAPA's motion (Doc. 256).
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Strike (Doc. 283) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion For Injunction (Doc. 297) is DENIED AS MOOT.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Clerk of Court is directed to enter judgment in favor of Defendant US Airline Pilots Association on Count I and Count IV, a judgment in favor of US Airways, Inc. on Count II, and a judgment of dismissal without prejudice on Count III.

DATED this 10th day of January, 2014."

That is all. Return your seats to their upright and locked positions.

 

[crazystnic]

the westies are lurking.. see my post above 3 Negatives.... LOL