2014 Pilot Discussion

[electricjet98]

Separate certificates (like AA-US Airways) yet considered a "single carrier" by the N M B for LABOR REPRESENTATION PURPOSES".  Yet EACH PILOT GROUP STILL HAD THEIR OWN UNION UNDER M-B for SLI!

Did those pilot groups vote on a contract (MOU) that specified SCS and JCBA prior to SLI? Did any of the CBA's for the pilot groups have their attorney successfully argue in Federal Court that only the CBA can represent the pilot groups...no interlopers allowed?

 

[EastUS1]

Did those pilot groups vote on a contract (MOU) that specified SCS and JCBA prior to SLI? Did any of the CBA's for the pilot groups have their attorney successfully argue in Federal Court that only the CBA can represent the pilot groups...no interlopers allowed?

 
I must ask: Is it actually conceivable that the west can at all imagine that the APA's trying to ride in on some white horse to serve the interests of mighty "Sparta"? Another way of phrasing that would be to ask if it's at all possible for carbon based life forms to truly be THAT astonishingly stupid, and still sustain even autonomic function at any level, save for at best, single cell level organisms? 😉

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
... if it's at all possible for carbon based life forms to truly be THAT astonishingly stupid, and still sustain even autonomic function at any level, save for at best, single cell level organisms? 😉

 
It is possible.  They are proof, as amazing as it is.

 

[luvthe9]

Begin
Subject: U-Turn: U-Turn reader replies to Captain Chip Munn


We’ve heard from Captain Munn before. He currently runs his own Pro-ALPA “PilotAction” website. Now he hypes an anonymous site of questionable “facts.” Wherever he sees an audience, he jumps on the latest cause. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I disagree with his. We have learned that when Captain Munn is involved, be very afraid, if he’s on your side of the issue.

 

[luvthe9]

Captain Munn and his few supporters have put out a constant stream of misrepresentations that are easily disproved. They want a return to the ALPA of old. They’re now on the outside, with no way back in except by replacing USAPA and receiving ALPA’s long-term gratitude

 

[luvthe9]

They have to negotiate in their own best interests. I just wanted to counter the grossly exaggerated claims of Captain Munn. Except for a few pilots near the top of their equipment and seat, the company’s current proposal does not live up to Captain Munn’s claim of tens of thousands extra dollars in our pockets. Instead, his “facts” are aimed at creating disunity and disagreement. His brand of "facts" need to be exposed for what they are.

 

[electricjet98]

I must ask: Is it actually conceivable that the west can at all imagine that the APA's trying to ride in on some white horse to serve the interests of mighty "Sparta"? Another way of phrasing that would be to ask if it's at all possible for carbon based life forms to truly be THAT astonishingly stupid, and still sustain even autonomic function at any level, save for at best, single cell level organisms? 😉

I don't think anyone on the "west" has thoughts of any "white horses". However, a CBA that recognizes its DFR, makes pragmatic decisions regarding any liability created by failing its DFR and is capable of operating with some small sliver of professionalism...well, that would be just a breath of fresh air!

 

[EastUS1]

I don't think anyone on the "west" has thoughts of any "white horses". However, a CBA that recognizes its DFR, makes pragmatic decisions regarding any liability created by failing its DFR and is capable of operating with some small sliver of professionalism...well, that would be just a breath of fresh air!

 
Fair enough. By "...makes pragmatic decisions regarding any liability created by failing its DFR...": do, even CAN you yet maintain fantasies that they're at ALL particularly concerned about litigation from the west, far above and beyond any other source(s)? If so; why? One must assume general knowledge of the fact that said (and only presumptively so) "CBA that recognizes its DFR" hadn't the slightest reservations about treating the TWA/Air Cal/Reno folks as they did. Seriously; what, in your estimation at least, makes PHX/"sparta" so very special here?
 
I honestly can't imagine the APA lying awake at night in fearful trepidation of AOL litigation (which has to date proved entirely laughable), nor having even the slightest concerns for handing some nic list to PHX, since it would disadvantage many of their own people to do so, unless they could first contrive some method of essentially stapling the entire USAirways side to the bottom. That last would seem their obvious intent, if it could prove at all possible, yet the pom poms for the APA thrash around in a true frenzy out in PHX nonetheless....Wow! What am I missing here?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Did those pilot groups vote on a contract (MOU) that specified SCS and JCBA prior to SLI? Did any of the CBA's for the pilot groups have their attorney successfully argue in Federal Court that only the CBA can represent the pilot groups...no interlopers allowed?

The statute supersedes the contract.  Its going to M-B and neither the Company, APA NOR USAPA can circumvent the statute.

 

[EastUS1]

 
It is possible.  They are proof, as amazing as it is.

 
So it sadly seems. One can't reasonably argue against empirical evidence and sustained observation.

 

[electricjet98]

The statute supersedes the contract.  Its going to M-B and neither the Company, APA NOR USAPA can circumvent the statute.

Seems to me Jamie that the contract waived any protection provided explicitly by the statute..."A seniority integration process consistent with McCaskill-Bond". IOW, a fair process will be provided by the singular CBA, such as independent committees advocating for their own group and equally funded by the surviving CBA. Similar to what would have been provided by actual McCaskill-Bond and separate CBA's had we not accepted SCS prior to SLI in our MOU.

 

[Phoenix]

Seems to me Jamie that the contract waived any protection provided explicitly by the statute.....

 
 
Silver didn't order accordingly.  

 

[EastUS1]

 ...IOW, a fair process will be provided by the singular CBA,....

 
Wow! Seriously? If that's truly the west's wish/current fantasy; think purely in terms of TWA/etc.  "a fair process"..? 🙂 Umm...sure thing, whatever "you'se" "spartans" say. "a fair process" with only the APA having any power over it? THAT'S what "you'se" actually want to see happen? Whew! I'm left just shaking my head in utter disbelief. No matter. Thanks again for all the chuckles. 😉
 
"I have always depended on the kindness of strangers." Blanche Dubois/Streetcar Named Desire. 🙂

 

[Black Swan]

Do the math metro. The Nicolau would have locked several thousand East pilots off the widebody stuff. That quarter million you say was lost has already been re ordered with lots of upgrades, and many of them to wide bodies. A small price to pay, which will be recouped in just a few years.
Your assessment is extremely short sighted. In fact, it is the West guys now who are denied the widebodies, upgrades. They are now paying their own personal LOA 93 tax, imposed by the shortsighted actions of Leonidas. That quarter million figure, suspicious to start with, will be supplanted by MILLIONS of W2 in the future. Your loss.

 

[electricjet98]

Fair enough. By "...makes pragmatic decisions regarding any liability created by failing its DFR...": do, even CAN you yet maintain fantasies that they're at ALL particularly concerned about litigation from the west, far above and beyond any other source(s)? If so; why?

"any other source(s)"? Without "any other source(s)" being defined that is impossible to answer. Failure of DFR is undoubtedly a high-hurdle to successfully litigate...just ask your MDA vs ALPA guys. AOL did successfully litigate that issue once but it was unfortunately called back due to ripeness. Seems 2 of three judges at the Ninth feel that without a new seniority list with which to compare with the Nic, DFR cannot be declared. That one key missing ingredient has continued to stymie AOL's efforts...but it won't once we have a new SLI created by our surviving CBA.

Regarding "any other source(s)"...who could claim failure of DFR by APA (and also collusion by the New American) if "a seniority integration process consistent with McCaskill-Bond", such as independent merger committees advocating for their group before a panel of neutral arbitrators?

One must assume general knowledge of the fact that said (and only presumptively so) "CBA that recognizes its DFR" hadn't the slightest reservations about treating the TWA/Air Cal/Reno folks as they did. Seriously; what, in your estimation at least, makes PHX/"sparta" so very special here?

What DFR did APA owe to the "TWA/Air Cal/Reno folks" prior to APA becoming their CBA?
 

I honestly can't imagine the APA lying awake at night in fearful trepidation of AOL litigation (which has to date proved entirely laughable), nor having even the slightest concerns for handing some nic list to PHX, since it would disadvantage many of their own people to do so, unless they could first contrive some method of essentially stapling the entire USAirways side to the bottom. That last would seem their obvious intent, if it could prove at all possible, yet the pom poms for the APA thrash around in a true frenzy out in PHX nonetheless....Wow! What am I missing here?

I think we would agree that "laughable" is defined purely in the eye of the beholder. That AOL has defended west pilots from the damage that the purely east pilot contrived DOH SLI is certainly not laughable for us. Seeing "USAPA change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority" exactly as Judge Silver had predicted...now that's a real belly-laugh!