2014 Pilot Discussion

[Keroseneuser]

Right seat on airbus in base of your choice or left seat on 190 with a phl commute.....for the same money......not hard to figure out how the guys are going to bid.
 
If the probation rules were in effect prior to this bid I would say they no longer apply, at least not if the company wants the 190's to have any captains! 🙂
 
Actually now with the 330 and 767 f/o slots going so junior for 10 to 50 bucks more an hour than the 190 capt seat pays I am amazed they have any 190 Capt.s left with more than 3 years seniority. 
 
My guess is anybody hired before 2005 that is a 190 Capt. is probably a commuter already no matter what airplane he/she is on, or lives in the PHL area.   I hear all the time from clt F/O's,  "They put it in CLT and I would bid it...but no way I am commuting to PHL."      I guess we on the east have been bounced around bases so much and so many years of forced commutes nobody wants to deal with it anymore,  The fact that 30 767 f/o slots went unfilled on this bid says a lot.  The pay difference between bus f/o and 767 f/o is not enough to outweigh the commuting pain in the a$$.   The 330 pay difference appears to only entice a few into a commute since the junior f/o's on this bid are into the 2012 DOH range.  
 
However for those guys at republic hunting a job.....seems to me if I were an HR type and knew the 190 left seats were going to new hires I would be hunting a bunch of 170/175 drivers........they come already trained and current!   🙂

 

[Beancounter]

I always knew that at a certain point in time DOH would look good to the west. Humm...
New hires to the international wide bodies, I think in a arbitration they would go senior to all the west F/Os. Wouldn't want a 2005 hire taking a new hires job. What goes around comes..........

Hmmmm. So my choice is defend the Nic or let you come up with your own list, where I go below a new hire, that I might have even wrote a letter of rec for??? Boy, that's a tough choice. Seriously, I swear some of you east pilots are the best fund raisers for AOL out there.

Bean

 

[flyer63]

Wow bean. Your starting to get the picture and see how it feels to be somewhere a good amount of time and be stapled to the bottom. Doesnt feel too good does it

 

[nycbusdriver]

I'm also not sure how the contract reads, but the 'MOF' reads exactly like what you said the old Piedmont contract said.  During indoc that thought used to always get a chuckle - "yeah, right"...I guess not anymore.

 
Yeah.  There are three ways to cut short the one-year probationary period.
 
1. Quit
2. Get fired
3. Get awarded a captain bid and successfully qualify.
 
Even in its heyday, it took a bit over two years to get an F28 captain bid at Piedmont.  Seeing probationary pilots being able to utilize #3 above might be something the industry has never seen at a major US carrier.  
 
I think it speaks to the abysmal pay rates that US, i.e. the New American, is paying on the E190.  Management should be ashamed, but they are likely celebrating the "cheap labor."

 

[nycbusdriver]

The bids to come should be pretty nice for us also. The west has to be going crazy, especially the senior pilots being held back by the little AFO club of pretend lawyers.

 
It's pretty "impressive," the amount of ++ symbols among the top-tier wide-body captains. 

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
As of the POR (Dec. 9th, 2013), the probation period on this property is the lessor of 12 months or 400 hours actually flown. I'm not sure of the actual seniority date of the junior 190 Captains as the latest seniority list from the company (Dated Jan. 2013) doesn't have them on it... But I think it's safe to say they probably have their 400 hrs... Just a guess...

 
If they're sitting waiting for their cell phones to ring, they might not have that 400 hours in the first year.  I don't know how much flying the new hires are doing in their first year.  We often have reserves who go months without seeing the inside of a real cockpit, and end up in CLT for their currency.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
 
However for those guys at republic hunting a job.....seems to me if I were an HR type and knew the 190 left seats were going to new hires I would be hunting a bunch of 170/175 drivers........they come already trained and current!   🙂

 
In theory, that's a nice idea.  But they still have to go through the entire inital, which gets them current anyway.  The only thing they would not have to repeat is taking the FAA for a Part 121 jumpseat ride as a new captain (which, thankfully, is a mandatory even only once per career.)

 

[Piedmont1984]

It's pretty "impressive," the amount of ++ symbols among the top-tier wide-body captains.

I forget, does the double + indicate 12 months to go?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Hmmmm. So my choice is defend the Nic or let you come up with your own list, where I go below a new hire, that I might have even wrote a letter of rec for??? Boy, that's a tough choice. Seriously, I swear some of you east pilots are the best fund raisers for AOL out there.

Bean

 
With new hires in the right seat of the widebodies, a slotted list looks pretty dismal for the westicles.  Sorry you missed the chance to talk about this.  You've been told for over six years now that the attrition was coming, but it was "Nic or nothing."  So, now you are faced with the "nothing" part.  Good luck on that slotting.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I forget, does the double + indicate 12 months to go?

 
I've asked that question on occasion, and no one (including the Bid Closing Committee) seems to know the answer.  Usually, I get told: "I think it's within 12 months of mandatory retirement, but I'm not sure.  It may be 6 months."
 
It's interesting that the company provides a "Legend" at the bottom of every page of the bid that defines the N and the DN, but they never bother to define ++.  Must be a State Secret.

 

[AWE Dog]

Odell could bid widebody F/O and make more money than every west F/O and be with in a few grand of the captains. Then a arbitrator would put him ahead of all the west F/Os prior to 1995 hires. Who really saved Dave????? DOH maybe?

 

[snapthis]

Hmmmm. So my choice is defend the Nic or let you come up with your own list, where I go below a new hire, that I might have even wrote a letter of rec for??? Boy, that's a tough choice. Seriously, I swear some of you east pilots are the best fund raisers for AOL out there.

Bean

 
Wow! The kids are in the liquor cabinet again.I t's a party!
 
You what they say, Bean. The higher they climb the harder they fall.
 
Enjoy those temporary gains girls.

 

[AWE Dog]

Hmmmm. So my choice is defend the Nic or let you come up with your own list, where I go below a new hire, that I might have even wrote a letter of rec for??? Boy, that's a tough choice. Seriously, I swear some of you east pilots are the best fund raisers for AOL out there.

Bean

Sorry Bean, Once Odell gets his widebody seat you can't take it from him or any new hire for that matter.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Odell could bid widebody F/O and make more money than every west F/O and be with in a few grand of the captains. Then a arbitrator would put him ahead of all the west F/Os prior to 1995 hires. Who really saved Dave????? DOH maybe?

 
Maybe with slotting as an eastie A330 F/O he could be 1500 numbers senior to himself when the SLI is settled!
 
It would be really grand to see Dave renounce his position on the AWA list to keep what he got as an east US "new" hire!

 

[Beancounter]

Wow! The kids are in the liquor cabinet again.I t's a party!
 
You what they say, Bean. The higher they climb the harder they fall.
 
Enjoy those temporary gains girls.

Yes, i'm afraid you're right. There is no fence sitting or extended hands of truce, lest your hand get chopped off. Well if there is one good thing USAPA has been good at in the past it's been attacking the west and uniting it. Well, that and over reaching. Oh well, looks like we may be back to the old tactics.

Bean