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2014 Pilot Discussion

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end_of_alpa said:
Which gives USAPA pilots and even bigger slice of the pie. West gets DOH with East and then that list merges with APA. A USAPA 1985 pilot could be slotted in with an APA 1983 pilot and so on.

I'm all for it.
 
We differ sir. In my thinking?...The west should be given full credit for their DOH/years worked, as should all of our same class and craft, always. Actual Principles must forever remain so, or not even pretendenly exist at all, lest we all become lost as human beings. Any of us, now or ever, just diminish ourselves to break from that. These are obviously insane times, and I understand where you're coming from, to say the least. They want/wanted "relative"....well/etc...None of which makes selfish opportunism of any kind "right", not theirs, not ours...EVER! I don't care how utterly disgusted I am, or ever have been with these pathetic and truly despicable little punks. Principles, if they exist for us at all, are never subject to momentary BS....Period!
 
Per the Chinese, this is the year of the horse....and however much little "spartans" strive mightilly to be the aft end of such...well..they still should be respected for their actually worked years.
 
traderjake said:
 
The USAPA MC is going to propose 3 lists and a United Continential type SLI.  
That would keep them/us out of court. Basically a do over for us based on the current paradigm which is fine by me. They do this and the NIC is truly dead and buried (as it should be). If the MC were to come up with their own list, we would  likely face the same kind of scrutiny and litigation we've been fighting for years. It won't be DOH, but it will be close, IMO.
 
traderjake said:
The USAPA MC is going to propose 3 lists and a United Continential type SLI.
Didn't you hear?.. The APA will be the sole rep by Feb 15th, will implement the Nic, assign a relative position SLI, and won't use any fences, because they are terrified of the mighty Spartans. :lol:

Judge Siver RULED, USAPA will have nothing to do with it. 😀
 
Word is the TWA/ALPA lawsuit settled for $53M.... And that was after ALPA was found guilty and projections were for billions in damages.

I think AOL is closing in on $53M of donations, or is it bills, or maybe message board posts containing the words "scab", "fake union", or "integrity matters".
 
EastUS1 said:
I doubt anyone could quickly even count the times the "spartans" have offered up, quoting here: "Karma's a Bi-ch", and perhaps never even considered that greed-soaked attempts at placing their own, even 3 month newhires, ahead of other human beings of the same class and craft with even 16-17 years of continuous service worked, just "might" affront lofty notions of presumed "karma", much less the one true Judge of such. 😉
This is the blind greed of Ferguson and Koontz. Ferguson shows up at america west and immediately puts fort a program to steal 17 years of service. His slick pamphlets failed, his lawyer is inept, his sidekick Koontz is another scam artist. All add up to millions wasted for nothing. USAPA has CRUSHED their tyranny.
 
Claxon said:
It is hard to believe that the west pilots allowed their leader to be ferguson.  He was in new hire ground school when the merger took place.  He only had his best interests in mind the whole time. He wanted to be a real major, respected airline pilot overnight.  It well never happen for him or others that fell for it, they will always be former west pilots.
 
Did you west pilots not sense this watching his videos?  Look at koontz, he looks weird.  No sympathy from me.
 
http://www.fergusonforpresident.com/index-7.html
Here is the fast talking huckster himself. Alongside his propaganda minister. Listen closely as he smugly relishes pay disparity.
The east new hires will soon enjoy the tables being turned.
 
algflyr said:
...without a representational vote by the membership. This will save time and money as I'm quite confident IF a vote were to happen, the vast majority of members from the APA and the East and West would vote for the APA.
 
 
 
 
As you say, there will be no representational election.  I doubt USAPA would even bother to file a "show interest" request to have one.
 
If there were an election of APA vs. USAPA, my guess is that about half of the AA pilots would bother to vote, and would go 95% for the APA.  The east would get about 25% partiipation, and of that there would be 85% for the APA.  The west would get an 80% indignation participation and would go 98% for the APA.
 
It would be interesting to see IBT and/or ALPA get on the ballot.  APA would still prevail, of course, but there would be a much higher percentage of participation.  IBT would fail, but give the best showing against APA.  ALPA would also fail, but the west would vote overwhelingly to get those jerks back on the property, because that is their only (impossible) hope to get their lottery ticket cashed.
 
EastUS1 said:
 
 Is that what chip says?...And just how many tears would/will you and chip cry if your precious "spartans" can't actually have their nic?..."LT Hardy"..."Honor"/etc? 😉
 
Haven't your heard:  "The Nic is it!"  
 
Where is good old 700UW and his great-union-experience view that there is no way to avoid the Nic?  Haven't heard from him on this subject lately.
 
end_of_alpa said:
Which gives USAPA pilots and even bigger slice of the pie. West gets DOH with East and then that list merges with APA. A USAPA 1985 pilot could be slotted in with an APA 1983 pilot and so on.

I'm all for it.
 
I have always said that the SLI will be slotted, but the negotiators will consider three lists, since there was never an operational integration of the east and west US lists.
 
Now, at the risk of being very unpopular among my east colleagues, there will be no fences around PHX vs. "east bases," and there will be no fences around "east" widebodies in regards to the westicles.  To do so would, IMHO, be a real DFR, and Silver would love to have that in front of her.  The fact is, this is a merger between two companies, and fences will be built between those two properties.  Once the SLI is complete, and the new contract signed, the former US operation will have no internal fences of any sort.
 
We need to encourage more AA pilots to jump in here to give Usapians a reality check. They're here patting themselves on the back while the debate is alive and well.

Like the one going on between AA pilot eaglefly and Usapian pilot flybywire44.

Eaglefly says, "I'm hopeful and somewhat confident most East pilots AREN'T like you. For the sake of the future of AA, I sincerely hope I'm correct."

Watching Eaglegfly dismantle flyby was a pleasure :lol:



eaglefly
Hysterical with worry
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Face forward/Sphincter shut
Posts: 3,696
Originally Posted by flybywire44
eaglefly,

Some may characterize you as being out of place for talking down to so many East pilots. You're absolutely entitled to your opinions, but why do you claim to be an American pilot and go out of your way to muddy the waters between our groups?

It is understandable if you are insecure about your outcome of this merger, but stop inciting negative discussion.

But East pilots talk down to so many others, myself included for simply disagreeing with your way of thinking and USAPA's past and present conduct. I think one of your clan even insinuates one of you has slept with my wife, but I guess that's O.K., at least on USAPA. It's interesting that some Usapians demand others stop questioning the ONSLUGHT of Usapian thought on this forum that results in its die-hard supporters and those who validate what they do to make thousands of posts, yet make no equal demand of themselves. I'm sorry, but if you'd like to improve relations here on the forum between the players in this little marriage, you collectively have to practice what you preach.

I'm not insecure about the outcome of this merger as I am one of the few not pontificating here on exactly how the SLI should occur. I hear virtually no West pilots doing that. That leaves only one other segment of this trio making 98% of the declarations on what should happen with the SLI. Coincidence ? I think not. If you really would like to see less negative discussion here on this subject, stop discussing the Nic and call the clan in Charlotte and ask them not to reneg on the provisions of the MOU like they reneged on the Nic. It is USAPA that is "muddying the waters" with their pathological obstructionism and intransigence, not one AA pilot. Besides, as some of your compadres periodically remind me, I'm a toothless loser of an RJ pilot who isn't qualified to be where I am and received my present job as a gift, so why concern yourself with my opinion anyway ?

Originally Posted by R57relay
I've had one experience with a FT. We took pilots from our two of our wholly-owned to MDA. I've flown with quite a few of them and found most to be great. A few though, well let's just say it's good they didn't have to interview. I can't see how they ever passed the one at the regionals. Ring a bell?

eaglefly
Hysterical with worry
Ah yes, the old "Loser RJ pilot" attack has now been expanded to simply a blanket "loser pilot" assault. Like I said, I've heard this attack before from Usapians and they seem to think it becomes more impressive over time. It doesn't. It DOES serve a useful purpose though. It indicates bias by someone who classifies others based on where they came from as opposed to who they are and exposes this person to others so they can make their own better assessment of their character and thus their credibility. You imply I'm the latter by the "ring a bell ?" crack, but you don't know me personally, don't know how I interview, how I fly or how I train. Likewise, I could fly with a few East pilots and prejudge them assuming they are all like you and wonder the same things about all East pilots (as opposed to Usapians), but that would just reflect the same misguided assumption and error in judgement you exhibit.

I'm hopeful and somewhat confident most East pilots AREN'T like you. For the sake of the future of AA, I sincerely hope I'm correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R57 relay
Aww sweetie, did I hit a nerve? You can run your mouth about something your really don't know about, but don't like having it thrown back at you, do you?

Do worry about east pilots, the new AA will be just fine. But, since you don't know me, what is the basis for your concern?

Are you from the south? If so you will know that this means-Bless Your Heart.

eaglefly
Hysterical with worry
Poor little Usapian..........I guess I should have added a few smiley faces to clue you in that you'll never get under my skin. You seem to do better with picture books and no, as usual you're wrong, I'm not from the south. Nice try though.

How 'bout you ?

Northern or Southern USAPA ?

One of the moons perhaps ?
 
nycbusdriver said:
 
I have always said that the SLI will be slotted, but the negotiators will consider three lists, since there was never an operational integration of the east and west US lists.
 
Now, at the risk of being very unpopular among my east colleagues, there will be no fences around PHX vs. "east bases," and there will be no fences around "east" widebodies in regards to the westicles.  To do so would, IMHO, be a real DFR, and Silver would love to have that in front of her.  The fact is, this is a merger between two companies, and fences will be built between those two properties.  Once the SLI is complete, and the new contract signed, the former US operation will have no internal fences of any sort.
I hope doh and or los is considered. APA seems to want doh from what their pilots tell me.
 
snapthis said:
Really??
The ones I talk to say the NIc with MB.
Sure they want the Nic. Who wouldn't want to put a slug of younger pilots way ahead of themselves. I believe you.
 
nevergiveup said:
I hope doh and or los is considered. APA seems to want doh from what their pilots tell me.
 
I am sure that the USAPA MC will propose an SLI heavily wieghted toward DOH or LOS, but the only way this will come out of negotiations intact is with some sort of slotting (IMHO).  APA is well aware that DOH with lengthy and high fences is not detrimental to their careers, and that it behooves them greatly to come up with a negotiated list, rather than go to M-B arbitration.  The APA, having a good grasp of arithmetic, is also well aware that including the Nic list in any slotting would be very detrimental to their careers by placing permanent roadblocks to their progression, and no fence could ever give them relief from those roadblocks.  
 
Arbitrators of late have little use for long enduring fences, and USAPA would be much more willing to accept lengthy fences for the AA widebody flying than likely would be the arbitrators.
 
I will be very surprised if the SLI goes to arbitration.  
 
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