2014 Pilot Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Maybe he was in Korea with Rodman.... Swish

No actually, 767JETZ leaves board in AUG 2013 and 319 shows up in DEC 2013, now we know JETZ took recall with his "FRIENDS" back WEST do the timeline the WHINER aint foolin anybody!  Welcome 319JETZ!

 

[prechilill]

Hate to break the news to ya.

There's not going to be East and West in the near future. Pilots will take the seats they can hold after the seniority problem is dealt with once and for all.

Once we get rid of USAPA maybe we can get some quality representation to correct the following error:

"The contrast with former ALPA members at US Airways is stark and unfortunate. Negotiations there have now been under way for more than five years. ALPA calculates that those pilots have lost close to $1 billion in contract valueor nearly $200,000 each on averagebased on the state of negotiations in May 2007. The current pay gap between a Delta and a US Airways A330 pilot is $54,000 a year."
Air Line Pilot
April 2012

 
Winning!
 
One day they will realize...
All paths lead to the Nic!

 

[snapthis]

Winning!
 
One day they will realize...
All paths lead to the Nic!

Rocky and Ken have a few comments about the path being taken by the merger committee:


February 4, 2014


Fellow West Pilots:


On Saturday, the four East pilots on the USAPA Merger Committee posted a Merger Committee Update announcing what we had already announced that we had resigned from the USAPA Merger Committee. That part of their Update was accurate. But that was the only part. The purpose of this letter is to correct the flat inaccuracies and to fill in the gaps of information in that Update. The quotes below come directly from the Update, followed by the truth.

While this Committee has always had differences regarding the equity and fairness of the unmodified Nicolau award, the West members have always told us they would consider other methods of integration once the courts ruled. They gave that assurance at the time they were appointed to the Committee and reaffirmed that commitment after their appointments.

WRONG When we were interviewed by the BPR for positions on the Merger Committee, we made clear in no uncertain terms that our role and our only role was to see to it that the Nicolau Award was the basis for any seniority integration with any other airline. When members of the BPR repeatedly quizzed us on this point, Pat Szymanski one of USAPAs lawyers piped in and told the BPR that our position was perfectly clear and that the BPR should either appoint us or not, but that trying to change our minds through their interrogation was a waste of time. He was right. Our position on the Nicolau Award was clear from the start and never wavered.
We have, of course, considered the unmodified Nicolau list and our thorough review clearly demonstrates that it doesnt satisfy the fair and equitable requirements of McCaskill-Bond, nor is it fair for our pilot group as a whole.

WRONG We have seen no analysis presented to, or produced by, the Committee demonstrating that the list produced by the Nicolau Award is not a fair and equitable basis for integrating the US Airways pilots with the American pilots. It was developed under a fair and equitable standard by the most respected seniority integration arbitrator in the country for the reasons and under the circumstances that were fully and accurately laid out in his Opinion. No one no court, arbitrator or serious commentator, other than the East pilots - has said it is not a fair and equitable list. And by the way, as we hardly need tell you, since the Nicolau list was created, West pilots have not enjoyed its benefits and East pilots who were on the brink of losing their jobs entirely before the merger with America West have moved happily up the promotion ladder while West pilots have suffered furloughs and displacements. Dave Odell who was a West first officer when list was issued was furloughed for a period and is now back flying as an A-320 first officer. And East pilots who were below Dave and were on furlough when the list was issued and had no prospects of ever flying for US Airways again before the merger are now flying as Captains.

During the meeting, the East members repeatedly offered to have [the two of us] review and consider a series of potential SLI methods.

This is a correct, but a telling statement. We have been on the Merger Committee for eight months. At no point at any meeting that we were at did the Committee develop any integration scenarios; we never even discussed any. But obviously someone had; quite plainly the four East members of the Committee, apparently behind our backs, have developed a series of potential SLI methods. If we were supposed to be working collaboratively, how did it come to be that by January 29 there were a series of potential SLI methods already developed that we had never heard about?

The West members offered as a solution, that they be assigned to a West-only committee to advocate for the unmodified Nicolau award. The East members do not have the ability to approve or disapprove that request, but we told them we would present that request to the BPR. The next morning, before we had the chance to present this request to the BPR, they abruptly resigned via email in a letter that contained numerous inaccuracies.

We did tell the four East members of the Merger Committee that, if the Committee itself was not going to use the Nicolau Award as a basis for the integration with American, the only fair way to proceed was to create a procedural framework under the Protocol Agreement it was negotiating with APA and the Company that provided for three Merger Committees an American Committee, an East Committee and a West Committee thereby allowing the West pilots to advance the Nicolau Award as a basis for integration with the American pilots. That process would put to rest, once and for all, claims that the Nicolau Award was not a fair basis on which to integrate the US Airways list with the American list. If it wasnt fair, the arbitrators in that case would say so by not using it. The four East Members of the Merger Committee did tell us that they did not have the power to do that (although we do not know why they didnt have that power they have been developing and negotiating all other terms of the Protocol Agreement) and would present it to the BPR. But, to quote them before [they] had the chance to present this request to the BPR they submitted a proposed Protocol Agreement to APA over our stated objection that called for only two Merger Committees a USAPA Merger Committee and an APA Merger Committee. What is more, they rejected our extremely modest request to put into their proposed Protocol Agreement a provision that would have required the identification of a pilot who was on the Nicolau list and where he would be on that list in the collection and exchange of data with APA. When they sent that proposed Protocol Agreement to APA over our objection, we felt we had no option other than to resign from a Committee that, from the start, had no intention at all in representing the West pilots interests.


Perhaps the East pilots on the Merger Committee will present our three-committee proposal to the BPR and perhaps the BPR will adopt it and offer it to APA (who, by their proposed draft seem to have endorsed at least the idea of such an approach). If it does and if APA and the Company accept it, there will be no need for us to serve on the East Merger Committee the West will have its own Committee. If it does not, we have no interest in serving on a USAPA Merger Committee that will not consider the West pilots legitimate interest in having the Nicolau Award at least considered in the upcoming seniority integration process. The point is that either way the BPR decides to go on this point, our usefulness on the Merger Committee, to whatever extent it might have ever been useful, was over.

The BPR has solicited other volunteers from among the West pilot group. Of course, every pilot has to decide for him or herself whether to accept that invitation. But before anyone does consider it, we urge you to read this letter again carefully and think about whether in light of our experience you truly feel that the USAPA Merger Committee is headed in a direction that you can endorse.


Ken Stravers

Rocky Calveri

 

[A320 Driver]

Hate to break the news to ya.

There's not going to be East and West in the near future. Pilots will take the seats they can hold after the seniority problem is dealt with once and for all.

Once we get rid of USAPA maybe we can get some quality representation to correct the following error:

"The contrast with former ALPA members at US Airways is stark and unfortunate. Negotiations there have now been under way for more than five years. ALPA calculates that those pilots have lost close to $1 billion in contract valueor nearly $200,000 each on averagebased on the state of negotiations in May 2007. The current pay gap between a Delta and a US Airways A330 pilot is $54,000 a year."
Air Line Pilot
April 2012

Right after the NIC comes out, John Prater walks into the crew room in PHL and announces that he saw it as problematic the first time he looked at it. But after the fiasco at Wye River and it being contract time and all, ALPA National decides for the East pilot group that we need to take one for the team. Their conclusion...the procedure for arbitration was followed. Nothing about fairness. Nothing about equitable. Just suck it up and take it in the gut. No thank you ALPO. The total lack of leadership at ALPA National put us in this mess. It's easy for them to pass judgment on us now. They have LOTS of help from the West pilots. Truth be known, the NIC is a disaster and always has been. If it were not such a lop sided award, the West group would not have invested so much money trying to save it. I hope you lose every dime.

 

[A320 Driver]

 
Winning!
 
One day they will realize...
All paths lead to the Nic!

One day you will realize that after the dust settles, all that you can get your dirty hands on is the attrition going forward. The bids are out and the slots filled. That is assuming you can get the NIC and that is FAR from certain.

 

[EastUS1]

Rocky and Ken have a few comments about the path being taken by the merger committee:

Ken Stravers

Rocky Calveri

 
So do Rocky and Bullwinkle. The difference being that the latter pair, athough equally being cartoon characters, are intentionally shown to be joking. 😉
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7mmrF-4rUE

 

[EastUS1]

ALPA calculates....
 

Right after the NIC comes out, John Prater walks into the crew room in PHL and announces that he saw it as problematic the first time he looked at it. But after the fiasco at Wye River and it being contract time and all, ALPA National decides for the East pilot group that we need to take one for the team. Their conclusion...the procedure for arbitration was followed. Nothing about fairness. Nothing about equitable. Just suck it up and take it in the gut. No thank you ALPO. The total lack of leadership at ALPA National put us in this mess. It's easy for them to pass judgment on us now. They have LOTS of help from the West pilots. Truth be known, the NIC is a disaster and always has been. If it were not such a lop sided award, the West group would not have invested so much money trying to save it. I hope you lose every dime.

 
Indeed, and just the "ALPA calculates" portion alone was sufficent for some serious chuckles. 😉

 

[EastUS1]

 
Winning!
 
One day they will realize...
All paths lead to the Nic!

 
"Winning!" Seriously? Umm...err...OK then. Whatever "you'se" say Charlie:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pipTwjwrQYQ

 

[EastUS1]

"Welcome to Fantasy Island, my friends"

 
It's kind of "you'se" to offer such hospitality. I'll have to pass, but thanks anyway, and do keep having fun with all your fellow "spartans", "knights", "dire wolves"/whatever there. 😉

 

[end_of_alpa]

Rocky and Ken have a few comments about the path being taken by the merger committee:


February 4, 2014


Fellow West Pilots:


On Saturday, the four East pilots on the USAPA Merger Committee posted a Merger Committee Update announcing what we had already announced that we had resigned from the USAPA Merger Committee. That part of their Update was accurate. But that was the only part. The purpose of this letter is to correct the flat inaccuracies and to fill in the gaps of information in that Update. The quotes below come directly from the Update, followed by the truth.

While this Committee has always had differences regarding the equity and fairness of the unmodified Nicolau award, the West members have always told us they would consider other methods of integration once the courts ruled. They gave that assurance at the time they were appointed to the Committee and reaffirmed that commitment after their appointments.

WRONG When we were interviewed by the BPR for positions on the Merger Committee, we made clear in no uncertain terms that our role and our only role was to see to it that the Nicolau Award was the basis for any seniority integration with any other airline. When members of the BPR repeatedly quizzed us on this point, Pat Szymanski one of USAPAs lawyers piped in and told the BPR that our position was perfectly clear and that the BPR should either appoint us or not, but that trying to change our minds through their interrogation was a waste of time. He was right. Our position on the Nicolau Award was clear from the start and never wavered.
We have, of course, considered the unmodified Nicolau list and our thorough review clearly demonstrates that it doesnt satisfy the fair and equitable requirements of McCaskill-Bond, nor is it fair for our pilot group as a whole.

WRONG We have seen no analysis presented to, or produced by, the Committee demonstrating that the list produced by the Nicolau Award is not a fair and equitable basis for integrating the US Airways pilots with the American pilots. It was developed under a fair and equitable standard by the most respected seniority integration arbitrator in the country for the reasons and under the circumstances that were fully and accurately laid out in his Opinion. No one no court, arbitrator or serious commentator, other than the East pilots - has said it is not a fair and equitable list. And by the way, as we hardly need tell you, since the Nicolau list was created, West pilots have not enjoyed its benefits and East pilots who were on the brink of losing their jobs entirely before the merger with America West have moved happily up the promotion ladder while West pilots have suffered furloughs and displacements. Dave Odell who was a West first officer when list was issued was furloughed for a period and is now back flying as an A-320 first officer. And East pilots who were below Dave and were on furlough when the list was issued and had no prospects of ever flying for US Airways again before the merger are now flying as Captains.

During the meeting, the East members repeatedly offered to have [the two of us] review and consider a series of potential SLI methods.

This is a correct, but a telling statement. We have been on the Merger Committee for eight months. At no point at any meeting that we were at did the Committee develop any integration scenarios; we never even discussed any. But obviously someone had; quite plainly the four East members of the Committee, apparently behind our backs, have developed a series of potential SLI methods. If we were supposed to be working collaboratively, how did it come to be that by January 29 there were a series of potential SLI methods already developed that we had never heard about?

The West members offered as a solution, that they be assigned to a West-only committee to advocate for the unmodified Nicolau award. The East members do not have the ability to approve or disapprove that request, but we told them we would present that request to the BPR. The next morning, before we had the chance to present this request to the BPR, they abruptly resigned via email in a letter that contained numerous inaccuracies.

We did tell the four East members of the Merger Committee that, if the Committee itself was not going to use the Nicolau Award as a basis for the integration with American, the only fair way to proceed was to create a procedural framework under the Protocol Agreement it was negotiating with APA and the Company that provided for three Merger Committees an American Committee, an East Committee and a West Committee thereby allowing the West pilots to advance the Nicolau Award as a basis for integration with the American pilots. That process would put to rest, once and for all, claims that the Nicolau Award was not a fair basis on which to integrate the US Airways list with the American list. If it wasnt fair, the arbitrators in that case would say so by not using it. The four East Members of the Merger Committee did tell us that they did not have the power to do that (although we do not know why they didnt have that power they have been developing and negotiating all other terms of the Protocol Agreement) and would present it to the BPR. But, to quote them before [they] had the chance to present this request to the BPR they submitted a proposed Protocol Agreement to APA over our stated objection that called for only two Merger Committees a USAPA Merger Committee and an APA Merger Committee. What is more, they rejected our extremely modest request to put into their proposed Protocol Agreement a provision that would have required the identification of a pilot who was on the Nicolau list and where he would be on that list in the collection and exchange of data with APA. When they sent that proposed Protocol Agreement to APA over our objection, we felt we had no option other than to resign from a Committee that, from the start, had no intention at all in representing the West pilots interests.


Perhaps the East pilots on the Merger Committee will present our three-committee proposal to the BPR and perhaps the BPR will adopt it and offer it to APA (who, by their proposed draft seem to have endorsed at least the idea of such an approach). If it does and if APA and the Company accept it, there will be no need for us to serve on the East Merger Committee the West will have its own Committee. If it does not, we have no interest in serving on a USAPA Merger Committee that will not consider the West pilots legitimate interest in having the Nicolau Award at least considered in the upcoming seniority integration process. The point is that either way the BPR decides to go on this point, our usefulness on the Merger Committee, to whatever extent it might have ever been useful, was over.
The BPR has solicited other volunteers from among the West pilot group. Of course, every pilot has to decide for him or herself whether to accept that invitation. But before anyone does consider it, we urge you to read this letter again carefully and think about whether in light of our experience you truly feel that the USAPA Merger Committee is headed in a direction that you can endorse.


Ken Stravers

Rocky Calveri

You should have testified in Silvers court.  Why didn't Harper/Jacobs call YOU TWO to tesitfy to rebut Pauleys testimony?
 
WHY?
 
These two encourage you West pilots to consider being members of the Merger committee but with a caveat:
 
EXPECT A BLANKET PARTY IF YOU DON'T TRY TO SANDBAG OR SUPPORT THE NICOLAU AWARD.
 
Good riddance Ken and Rocky.
 
Oh.  And one more thing.  The MOU specifically addresses the FACT that the protocol agreement WILL BE negotiated BY the 9th of February.  If there IS delay on behalf of the company OR the APA expect going to court.  The MOU is clear on this.

 

[nevergiveup]

 
Winning!
 
One day they will realize...
All paths lead to the Nic!

I can see the Nic being used in PHX, but no other base.

 

[A320 Driver]

I can see the Nic being used in PHX, but no other base.

Perfect...make it so.

 

[nycbusdriver]

There's not going to be East and West in the near future. Pilots will take the seats they can hold after the seniority problem is dealt with once and for all.

 

 
Wow!  We can agree on something, anyway.  There will be no differentiaion between east and west with the new SLI.  Anything else would certainly qualify for a DFR, and the company would never put up with fences between east and west anyway.
 
But the seniority will not be based on the Nicolau.  That went into  coma in April, 2008, and died on December 9, 2014.

 

[flyer63]

I can see the Nic being used in PHX, but no other base.

As it always should have been. Easy solution , the west has always said except a few morons that they don't want to steal our east capt jobs

 

[Freighterguynow]

Rocky and Ken have a few comments about the path being taken by the merger committee:



Ken Stravers

Rocky Calveri