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2014 Pilot Discussion

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MUTATIS MUTANDIS said:
You forgot to add nullified by the 9th, discarded by ALPA in the NAUGHLER and voted away in the MOU, now demanding representation of it in a SLI, you can't make this S$&$ up!
I know...... and it's still not dead!  What the heck, how do you kill this thing?!?  Even a nuclear attack on our own soil, aka safety campaign didn't do it.  I don't know maybe it can't be killed, because even if we don't have to use it, it can be used as a precedent still.  Nahhhhhhh, there's got to be a way.
 
Bean
 
MUTATIS MUTANDIS said:
They have a huge legal reason!
Let me know when they send out the press release, I'd like to know, so we can all move on.
 
Bean
 
traderjake said:
 
It reminds me of the old saying "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". 
 
So I think it's safe to say the APA doesn't want a mostly junior and younger pilot group (the West) taking their widebody positions at the top of the integrated seniority list. Hence, you are their enemy (don't fool yourself, you are). But we on the East are also your enemy... So by the saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", does that mean that the East and West are friends?? Holy crap! There is no telling where this may go now... I fear I just lost my Captain bid on the next permanent bid... 🙁
 
The funniest part, Meanwhile, according to court filings the Company and APA are seeking West Pilot Class certification and the West pilot's having a seat at the M-B BOA table and for APA to appoint multiple MCs (presumably three), which is an interesting development. Why? DFR and liability! Before you land, you have to take-off? OK!
 
I know...... and it's still not dead!  What the heck, how do you kill this thing?!?  Even a nuclear attack on our own soil, aka safety campaign didn't do it.  I don't know maybe it can't be killed, because even if we don't have to use it, it can be used as a precedent still.  Nahhhhhhh, there's got to be a way.
 
Bean
An arbitration with get this(specific rules ) set by a UNION, not representing our pilots, now why do you think the MB legislation was adopted, and what law firm wrote it for MB, the sponsors , 1st clue , it was not FREUND!
 
BEAN, the MB legislation is very specific, the parties named  in a MOU we ratified will represent the pilot groups! Word up! DEC 2018 will be your next contract!
 
algflyr said:
 
So I think it's safe to say the APA doesn't want a mostly junior and younger pilot group (the West) taking their widebody positions at the top of the integrated seniority list. Hence, you are their enemy (don't fool yourself, you are). But we on the East are also your enemy... So by the saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", does that mean that the East and West are friends?? Holy crap! There is no telling where this may go now... I fear I just lost my Captain bid on the next permanent bid... 🙁
Nope your going to take full advantage of EAST attrition for at least 3 more years, enjoy! The WESTICLES have made sure of it, thank them next time you see a CACTUS PILOT bag tag, I do!
 
MUTATIS MUTANDIS said:
The funniest part, Meanwhile, according to court filings the Company and APA are seeking West Pilot Class certification and the West pilot's having a seat at the M-B BOA table and for APA to appoint multiple MCs (presumably three), which is an interesting development. Why? DFR and liability! Before you land, you have to take-off? OK!
And how long will it take?, How long will it be contested? How many courts? APA not to suffer a DFR over this issue also?
 
Beancounter said:
Let me know when they send out the press release, I'd like to know, so we can all move on.
 
Bean
Really, I am sure your wife will get it in the side section of the coaches brief! BTW us EASTIES are movin on and out, the best, MM!
 
EastUS1 said:
Are you sure about that Bean? I'll have you know sir, that we've a returned-from-under-his-rock-poster here who's proudly represented the Hair Club, and who's to now even speculate on how much attention and gravity he seeks to hold? 😉
I keep trying to find his old TV commercials, everyone needs to see them.
 
algflyr said:
 
So I think it's safe to say the APA doesn't want a mostly junior and younger pilot group (the West) taking their widebody positions at the top of the integrated seniority list. Hence, you are their enemy (don't fool yourself, you are).
 
APA wants slotting by equipment and status because they don't want our East NB Reserve Captains senior to their WB Captains.
 
The internal order of the East and West list is secondary to that goal.
 
USA320Pilot said:
What's wrong with APA's PHX-based pilots representing them self in the M-B ISL arbitration, if held?
Uh....because....they LOST and you keep giving them FALSE HOPE?

Hope that the law says will NEVER materialize?

I'm looking forward to 9 years of Westicle self pity and loathing. Why wreck a good thing?
 
traderjake said:
APA wants slotting by equipment and status because they don't want our East NB Reserve Captains senior to their WB Captains.
 
The internal order of the East and West list is secondary to that goal.
Well we want all the APA to go to the bottom of the list.

I'm so looking forward to the day you and Chip get your "legal" opinions shoved down your throat. All this crap gives us fodder for years to come.

LOVIN IT!
 
USA320Pilot said:
 
[SIZE=10pt]I do not like the Nicolau Award and I believe it's unfair, but that is my opinion and not a fact. I believe those who voted for USAPA created this problem because they did not listen to Mike Abram. I believe the creation of USAPA shifted the dispute from a moral argument, which could ahve been dealt with under ALPA, to a DFR argument and subsequent complaint(s). Do like this? No, of course not. But, I believe "final and binding" is "final and binding," otherwise; the entire dispute resolution process would become a mockery.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Separately, in my opinion, it's wrong for a voting majority to try to impose their will on a minority group to virtually staple a pre-merger pilot group to the bottom of the joint SL and for unemployed furloughed pilots to become senior to active Captains under the guise of C&Rs. I know many East pilots can accommodate their thoughts to justify their staple desires because of career disappointment, but from a moral perspective I believe that is wrong.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Far too many people are looking at the East vs. West pilot dispute from an emotional SLI perspective when the issue is all about DFR.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]And, USAPA has hurt hundreds of thousands of pilots, their families, and US Airways' customers by their illegal actions and inability to reach a JCBA with the company, even if that JCBA had only been the Kirby Proposal.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Meanwhile, according to court filings the Company and APA are seeking West Pilot Class certification and the West pilot's having a seat at the M-B BOA table and for APA to appoint MCs, which is an interesting development. Why? DFR and liability.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]I saw two interesting posts on another board, They are:[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]"Remember that ever since the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals overturned the Addington I jury verdict and Judge Wake's injunction, the courts have deemed USAPA's DOH scheme to be an "unquestionably ripe DFR". Do you think that has fallen on deaf ears within the APA? Even Judge Silver's recent ruling said that the DFR violation was avoided on the slimmest of margins solely based on the fact that USAPA did not include an alternative list (DOH based because that's needed to comply with the USAPA C&BLs) for comparison to the Nicolau Award. What's different now is that the MOU spells out a definitive timeline to an SLI. The APA will be the CBA and the new list will be used for bidding purposes shortly after its release because it is preceded by a JCBA. Thus no "ripeness" issue is likely to delay any DFR violation claim as has been the case with USAPA's inability to secure a contract and implement a list."[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]"To date, the East pilots have used their statistical majority to keep the question if the Nic is final & binding in abeyance. With this advantage (majority) soon to be lost, I expect the APA parsing through the subject rather quickly. If, under any circumstances, the APA inherits the same DFR liability for using a non-Nic list, I suspect that the APA will insure themselves. How? By allowing what USAPA refuses; a West voice from within the CBA to advocate for the Nic's inclusion moving forward. By allowing the West independent counsel and committee, the APA can do as ALPA does and remain neutral in SLI arbitrations. Once finalized, all the APA is responsible is to implement the award properly."[/SIZE]
 
Is this your letter? How about this one from Sept 2007?
 
"I find it interesting the Federal Courts permitted United to re-order the pilot seniority list after ALPA sued and won the case, but some of the normal "pilot haters" and USAviation.com "naysayers" say it cannot be done in the US Airways-America West pilot seniority integration dispute.

One thing is certain. We will all get to see the Court rule on the US Airways-America West pilot seniority issue because USAPA will become the new bargaining agent for both the East and West pilots in early 2008. With the exact number of cards required to hold an election known in a couple of week's after the last furlough recall class is held, the USAPA uncertainty of the number of votes needed to hold an election will finally be known.

At that point AWA320 and Junebug's ALPA positions will be available to them for about more 90 days and then they will need USAPA approval to hold a union position.

Tic...Toc...Tic...Toc

Regards,

USA320Pilot"
 
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