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2014 Pilot Discussion

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end_of_alpa said:
During the strike I picked up a Wall Street Journal to read from the cabin on a break after the passengers got off.  I wouldn't call that cleaning.  I might agree with you that pilots generally march to the beat of a different drummer but picking up a newpaper hardly rises to the level of scab.  Oh, and for the record considering the state of the industry today vs. then how does everyone feel the environment for labor unions is today?  Heck, even LABOR doesn't like labor unions.  What's that tell you?
 
Hey, just sayin.
 
Lets find out:
 
“Look at what happened to the auto manufacturers in Detroit and how they struggled. They all shared one huge factor: the U.A.W.,” said Mr. Jarvis, who added that he had had bad experiences with other labor unions. “If you look at how the U.A.W’s membership has plunged, that shows they’re doing a lot wrong.”
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/business/volkswagen-workers-reject-forming-a-union.html
I never have cleaned an aircraft cabin. I just felt it was more important to do the pilot related stuff. The only time I crossed the picket line was when I deadheaded back to base during the strike and the only way I could get to the parking lot was to walk past the picket line. I got paid to stay home for a while and I can't find any reason to regret that. I saw and experienced some pretty nasty stuff during the months before the strike and quite frankly the time off was very relaxing.
 
Bob
 
Bob
 
algflyr said:
 
You do realize that the 60 day deadline is only 20 days from today don't you? I seriously doubt the NMB could certify the APA as the CBA and then the APA decide to waive the remaining time. There would be no time to waive...
 
The protocol agreement is due tomorrow and an integrated list is due in 20 days (March 9th) or the arbitration process begins. 
 
Edited to add: Perhaps I misunderstood what 60 days you were talking about. It was a 90 day deadline for an integrated list. Either way, we may hear something tomorrow on the protocol agreement. But for sure, we will know in less than 3 weeks if we are going to arbitration...
What do you think the chances are of another delay?  I bet you that's what we hear tomorrow - DELAY.
 
Piedmont1984 said:
Here's a stroll down memory lane reminding everyone Wye things went wrong when the west ignored its good Freund's advice.
There's Titanium level and then there's Titanic level.
 
***************************************
 
7/23/2008 … U-Turn
 
Taking Responsibility
 
“A recession is when you have to tighten your belt; depression is when you have no belt to tighten. When you've lost your trousers - you're in the airline business.” Sir Adam Thomson
Over the past few U-Turns, we’ve noticed a change in the tone of comments we’ve received. Maybe the reality of what we are up against is finally sinking in. Some accused us of taking the quotes from the Freund rebuttal out of context. We didn’t. We’ve had requests for copies of Jeff Freund’s actual East Vs West court documents. The file is too big to be directly cut and pasted. We can forward it in a scanned PDF-ZIP/Scan format. Just email us. Remember, we have no website, no budget and receive no donations. Maybe someone will paste it as an attachment on the AWAPPA web board for all to view. We would do it ourselves, but we’ve all been banned from the AWAPPA web board since May.
We have also received additional comments on what happened at Wye River from both sides. While our initial reporting appears to be correct and consistent with the latest accounts, it was incomplete. Here’s additional information from both sides.
According to our reports, on Day One of Wye River, Jeff Freund warned the West MEC that if USAPA won, the West risked losing everything. He urged reaching an agreement. He was gone on Day Two. We won’t address his motivation for leaving.
As Jeff Freund observed in his rebuttal to the East MEC lawsuit, the NIC was not in stone. And the loss of ALPA put it in real trouble. At least ALPA had the obligation, through the ALPA Merger Policy, to attempt to get the company to use the NIC Award.
ALPA’s lawyers knew the list was negotiable, but they never told either rank and file. We attended last summer’s ALPA road shows in PHX, starring Paul Rice and a cast of ALPA attorneys. Did ALPA ever hint that the NIC was negotiable? We believe it was for fear of fanning the flames and drawing more support for USAPA that Herndon kept that from us. They did tell all the Wye River attendees the reality. One side listened, the other didn’t.
In last summer’s East Vs West lawsuit, the East used ALPA DUES MONEY and an ALPA-Approved attorney, Roland Wilder, to pursue the case. As far as we can determine, we had to use our own Merger Fund money to defend ourselves. Thanks for choosing sides, ALPA! In the likely event that the NIC will be trashed in a single contract, it will be our own voluntary contributions that will have to be raised for a DFR lawsuit. USAPA expects it, so we shouldn’t disappoint them. This could be an extremely costly effort that could drag on for years. U-Turn is not discouraging filing a DFR, and we need closure.
Jeff Freund is a top-notch lawyer. We have no doubt that he told our MEC the truth about how negotiable the NIC really was. The question is: why didn’t CJ, Bendett, et al, listen? We figure that they either didn’t believe him or after all their hairy-chested resolutions and hotlines, they were afraid to back down. What good are attorneys if you don’t take their advice?
There is one other possibility. We mentioned it in a previous U-Turn. Our union leaders believed that the USAPA vote would be close (razor’s edge, to quote one of them) and that it was worth holding out and rolling the dice, figuring that if ALPA survived, so would the NIC. Too bad ALPA didn’t explain the importance of the 30% of East pilots who refused to participate in the Wilson Polling.
We now have a better picture what the East MEC had on the table: an 8 year fence, furloughs by longevity (LOS), MDA time not counting for longevity, Dave O’Dell having 400 pilots below him, and the Nic surviving as THE LIST. Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now, but last February the EAST MEC and ALPA couldn’t get to first base with it.
Our former MEC and our union leadership played a very high stakes game of poker by not dealing at Wye River. Freund was right, we were risking everything…..and right now, it looks like we lost. They need to take responsibility for that.
U-Turn
Personally, I'll own it, but I don't regret it. I take anything from HH with a grain of salt. To much ego and hurt feelings driven lashing out. I knew then I could 'lose it all.' That's no revelation. The Wye River venue was rigged from the start.

I don't like what's happened since, I don't think any of us do. But it happened. I just hope that whatever happens from here, the 3 arbitrators get it. After that, I'll forever hold my peace.
 
Res Judicata
Posted Today, 12:14 PM


Veteran
 



""""Think USCABA is finalizing the twice extended protocol agreement on this holiday Monday to present by tomorrow...the latest deadline? Or, is it finally sinking in that USCABA has already been blown off the map?

HA!!

So. Whose willing to go to prison for misappropriating the funds of a decertified former bargaining agent? You can bet the West, via AOL is going to put that issue in the spotlight immediately following USCABAs declaration of death by the NMB."""""
 
 
RES,
 
Too late to get dues money back, (agency fees in your case) it is in a Swiss bank now.    HA!  Too late, the money is out of the country now scab!   You should worry about getting fergie money back from the contract you signed to get your titanium badge. Sucker!  Get back in line!
 
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Contributions/Leonidas%20LLC%20Operating%20Agreement.pdf
 
 
 
 
UNITED PILOTS  ALPA problems.
 
 
[SIZE=13pt]A Note About Jumpseat Boarding Priority Changes[/SIZE]
 

[SIZE=12pt]On the evening of February 19, United will begin using the Integrated Seniority List for determining jumpseat boarding priority on all United mainline flights.  Integration of the ISL will begin at 9 pm CST and should be completed by 11 pm CST. The policy of legacy priority on legacy metal will be retired. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]The excerpt below is from the Flight Operations Bulletin on the implementation of the ISL for jumpseating. It describes where a pilot can find his or her current seniority number and how SHARES determines relative seniority. Seniority numbers, while remaining relative, are updated at different times. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Each pilot's integrated seniority number can be found in CCS by navigating to CCS>Reports>Staffing.  Enter your employee number in the Emp ID field (upper left on screen) and select 'Sys Seniority' from the Sort First By dropdown (lower left on screen).  The resulting output will display your current Integrated Seniority number, which is dynamic and refreshed in real time, e.g., every time there is a retirement, all numbers below the retiree go up by one.  The numbers used by the Jumpseat award automation may be slightly different than those obtained through CCS because they are only updated once per week when a new hire class is entered into the system (rather than instantly like the CCS numbers).  All pilots are always in relative integrated seniority order, however, and will be prioritized properly.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]The jumpseat process itself remains unchanged. Pilots can still use EmployeeRes to list for the jumpseat. The pass rider list screen in EmployeeRes will correctly reflect a pilot’s jumpseat boarding priority based on his or her ISL number.  There is no requirement to list. If you have not been able to list just go to the gate and ask the agent to list you for the jumpseat.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]This is another step in the process of harmonizing jumpseat policy and procedure.  As with all changes, it will take some time for agents and pilots to adapt.  Your courtesy and professionalism in dealing with your fellow pilots and fellow employees as we navigate this change are appreciated.  If you encounter any issues please [/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt] file a JSAP report[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt].  The JSAP link can be found on the Jumpseat Committee page of the UALMEC.ORG website at [/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt] www.ualmec.org[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt].[/SIZE]

 
 
 
UNITED AIRLINE PILOTS DENYING JUMP SEATS FROM EACH OTHER.  west pilot's play book.
 
[SIZE=large]Professional Standards[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=12pt]Your Professional Standards Committee understands the difficulty in merging two pilot groups and the complexities that arise from differences of opinions on how the pilots were integrated.  SLI is over and some pilots may be upset with the results. Those who are upset with the arbitrator's decision should be cautious about venting their disagreement when talking to fellow pilots who may not share their point of view.  If people cannot discuss things professionally and civilly, they should avoid the conversation, change the subject or agree to disagree.  Think of this as politics and religion in the cockpit.  [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]We are ALL represented by a UNION on the property, ALPA, and it would be greatly helpful if the pilot group used the resources of ALPA first instead of airing grievances about fellow pilots in management's offices.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]News of some recent disturbing events on the line has reached ALPA leadership and your Professional Standards Committee. Important recent issues are the denial of jumpseats to fellow crew members.  Your fellow UNITED pilot who requests the privilege of the jumpseat may have many reasons for the request.  He or she may be commuting to or from work, might be rushing home for a family emergency, or beginning those precious days off.  Denial of jumpseats should not be used for capricious reasons. A jumpseater is a fellow UNITED pilot.  Remember the golden rule?  Many of us have been there, requesting the jumpseat while rushing home from a layover for a family emergency.  If not for the generosity and professionalism of the Captain offering his jumpseat, we might not have made it home.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]I urge you to use the resources of you Professional Standards Committee when conflict arises and to not use the jumpseat as a weapon against your fellow pilots. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]If you need to reach the Professional Standards Committee, please contact one of the following:[/SIZE]
 
Captain Judy Lee
Chairman
judy.lee@alpa.org
Captain Bill Licht
Vice Chairman
bill.licht@alpa.org
First Officer Joe Cook
Vice Chairman
joe.cook@alpa.org
 
 
Bottom line, alpa darling united airlines, that merged with continental airlines, has almost 3000 plus scab pilots in their ranks.  Yes, alpa union scab brothers and sisters.  Res would thrive in that environment.
 
Claxon said:
Bottom line, alpa darling united airlines, that merged with continental airlines, has almost 3000 plus scab pilots in their ranks.  Yes, alpa union scab brothers and sisters.  Res would thrive in that environment.
We have a couple working for USAPA.
 
Claxon said:
 
 
UNITED AIRLINE PILOTS DENYING JUMP SEATS FROM EACH OTHER.  west pilot's play book.
 
[SIZE=large]Professional Standards[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=12pt]Your Professional Standards Committee understands the difficulty in merging two pilot groups and the complexities that arise from differences of opinions on how the pilots were integrated.  SLI is over and some pilots may be upset with the results. Those who are upset with the arbitrator's decision should be cautious about venting their disagreement when talking to fellow pilots who may not share their point of view.  If people cannot discuss things professionally and civilly, they should avoid the conversation, change the subject or agree to disagree.  Think of this as politics and religion in the cockpit.  [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]We are ALL represented by a UNION on the property, ALPA, and it would be greatly helpful if the pilot group used the resources of ALPA first instead of airing grievances about fellow pilots in management's offices.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]News of some recent disturbing events on the line has reached ALPA leadership and your Professional Standards Committee. Important recent issues are the denial of jumpseats to fellow crew members.  Your fellow UNITED pilot who requests the privilege of the jumpseat may have many reasons for the request.  He or she may be commuting to or from work, might be rushing home for a family emergency, or beginning those precious days off.  Denial of jumpseats should not be used for capricious reasons. A jumpseater is a fellow UNITED pilot.  Remember the golden rule?  Many of us have been there, requesting the jumpseat while rushing home from a layover for a family emergency.  If not for the generosity and professionalism of the Captain offering his jumpseat, we might not have made it home.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]I urge you to use the resources of you Professional Standards Committee when conflict arises and to not use the jumpseat as a weapon against your fellow pilots. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]If you need to reach the Professional Standards Committee, please contact one of the following:[/SIZE]
 
Captain Judy Lee
Chairman
judy.lee@alpa.org
Captain Bill Licht
Vice Chairman
bill.licht@alpa.org
First Officer Joe Cook
Vice Chairman
joe.cook@alpa.org
 
 
Politics, religion, same sex marriage......these are non controversial subjects compared to seniority.
 
Claxon said:
Bottom line, alpa darling united airlines, that merged with continental airlines, has almost 3000 plus scab pilots in their ranks.  Yes, alpa union scab brothers and sisters.  Res would thrive in that environment.
The CAL scab JAMES RAY your fake scab union's spokesman seems to be thriving at USCABA !

Too bad the only thing you idiots ever thrived at was failure.

WHERES THE PROTOCOL AGREEMENT?
 
Res Judicata said:
WHERES THE PROTOCOL AGREEMENT?
Check your blood pressure, dude. Chill.
What's the big deal?
Your stake in this and your role in this is minimal at best.
Go find a good book to read. 
Cheers.
 
Res Judicata said:
The CAL scab JAMES RAY your fake scab union's spokesman seems to be thriving at USCABA !

Too bad the only thing you idiots ever thrived at was failure.

WHERES THE PROTOCOL AGREEMENT?
So why are you chomping at the bit so bad for this agreement. Relax mon, everything going to be okay!
 
PullUp said:
Check your blood pressure, dude. Chill.
What's the big deal?
Your stake in this and your role in this is minimal at best.
Go find a good book to read. 
Cheers.
 
 
nevergiveup said:
So why are you chomping at the bit so bad for this agreement. Relax mon, everything going to be okay!
 
Uhhh....Res is mocking you.View attachment 10022
 
I don't think any West pilot really cares what your lame-duck union is doing. The APA will be running the show.
 
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