2014 Pilot Discussion
- Thread starter Falcon
- Start date
- Status
Res Judicata
Veteran
The APA fully intends to arbitrate...unless after USAPA is dead they think they have an LUP to staple the Nic award. Which they might. It depends.Claxon said:
Phoenix
Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2003
- Messages
- 8,584
- Reaction score
- 7,430
You had a TA backed by nothing and the courts kept telling you that. If APA and the company chose to violate MB during SLI negotiations the courts will not stand idley by as they did with you. The APA and the company know it is true... But when has the company ever been forthcoming during negotiations. They both are screaming that they do not need USAPA to agree and are using that as a threat to get USAPA to agree. :Lol:Res Judicata said:
traderjake
Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2002
- Messages
- 5,669
- Reaction score
- 9,308
Sure they do. Of course you are one of the prime players who led Leonidas into the ditch.Res Judicata said:
The APA will do exactly as Crandall warned them to do.
I am surprised any west pilot even talks to you Mark.
USAPA has the best advisors in this battle. The Wilders will eat Parker, and the APA alive. I hope the APA does arbitrate so Billy Wilder can put them right on the burner.Phoenix said:
Roghair and Wilson can try to tell Wilder what Wilder was thinking when he wrote McCaskill Bond.
Res Judicata
Veteran
Nobody is bothering to either threaten or ask USAPA anything. You've been shut out. Ask Gary. He seems to understand the obvious. My guess is the NMB guts USCABA by the end of April.Phoenix said:
Btw, you won't know if MB has been violated until you ask a Federal Judge and the appeals process works out. So IOW, you're just talking out your ass that anyone cares about MB yet. Everyone but USCABA seems pretty comfortable with the way this is going. Majority rules right? This is a democracy...remember? HA!!!!!
You, American, and the APA will be defeated again in the courts. Just like Addington 1+2Res Judicata said:
You and your legal team have been smoked in every single engagement. Every one.
Your threats and prognostications mean nothing. You have been one of the main drivers in the failed Leonidas strategy. Get a necktie. You will need it to hang yourselves.
Res Judicata
Veteran
I know you really enjoy this fantasy that you know who I am but YOU DO NOT. For such a "winning" union, you guys sure have very precious little to show for it. The word "Pyrrhic" comes to mind. Sure is a lot of anxiety being projected from you scabs' HQ. the money stream is very nearly cut off, if the remaining funds aren t returned to their lawful owners at the Earliest opportunity, I can promise you that the former BPR members of the FORMER bargaining agent had best prepare themselves for jail. If nothing else, that money will be spent in record time as lawsuits from 50 states hit each of them personally. If it sends them all into personal BK...icing on the cake.Claxon said:
Your new union knows what's best for you. Relax.
Res Judicata said:
Wow! I'd no idea there were "spartan" outposts in all 50 states! 😉
Somehow, call me crazy, but based on everything the west's EVER predicted or threatened, versus the actual results; I'm perfectly fine with Claxon's observation here (and I think he put it rather kindly at that): "Your threats and prognostications mean nothing." If anything; all they've ever served to do is accurately predict that which will NOT happen.
snapthis
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2009
- Messages
- 4,236
- Reaction score
- 6,907
USAPA Update - SLI Events
This is a chronological summary of some of the Seniority List Integration (SLI) events of the last 10 days. All the documents linked below are also posted on the USAPA Web site.
On February 18, as previously reported, the parties to the MOU (the Company, APA and USAPA) were unable to reach agreement on a Protocol Agreement that would have established the process for seniority list integration. This was the deadline under the MOU, as extended by the mutual agreement of the parties. The impasse resulted when the Company, APA, and USAPA were unable to agree on what authority APA would have to amend the protocol agreement if and when APA became the certified representative following a single carrier finding by the National Mediation Board (NMB). USAPA was unwilling to waive its rights as a party in the McCaskill-Bond SLI proceeding and was unwilling to allow the Company and APA unlimited control over the Merger Committee, funding for the committee, and the process for SLI.
On February 20, as was reported in a President's Message, following the impasse, USAPA sent a request (click here) to the NMB for a list of arbitrators. This request was made under the provisions of McCaskill-Bond and Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions, which are incorporated in the McCaskill-Bond Amendment. In particular, Section 13(a) of the LPPs provides:
SECTION 13.
(a) In the event that any dispute or controversy (except as to matters arising under section 9) [section 9 of the LPPs involves moving expenses and is not relevant to the SLI process] arises with respect to the protections provided herein which cannot be settle by the parties within 20 days after the controversy arises, it may be referred by any party to an arbitrator selected from a panel of seven names furnished by the National Mediation Board for consideration and determination. The parties shall select the arbitrator from such panel by alternatively striking names until only one remains, and he shall serve as arbitrator. Expedited hearings and decisions will be expected, and a decision shall be rendered within 90 days after the controversy arises, unless an extension of time it is mutually agreeable to all parties. The salary and expenses of the arbitrator shall be borne equally by the carrier and (i) the organization or organizations representing employee or employees or (ii) if unrepresented, the employee or employees or group or groups of employees. The decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding on the parties.
Section 13(b provides that the process provided in Section 13(a):
shall not apply if the parties by mutual agreement determine that an alternative method for dispute settlement or an alternative procedure for selection of an arbitrator is appropriate in their particular dispute. No party shall be excused from complying with the above condition by reason of having suggested an alternative method or procedure unless and until that alternative method or procedure shall have been agreed to by all parties.
On February 25, the Company and APA filed identical grievances under the MOU alleging that USAPAs request to the NMB violated the MOU and asked that USAPA be directed to rescind the request and bargain in good faith over a process to select a panel of arbitrators (Company MTA#4 and APA MTA #4).
On February 26, the Company and APA sent similar letters (Company Letter and APA Letter) to the NMB taking the position that the NMB should not issue the list of arbitrators until the grievances were resolved. On February 27, the NMB asked USAPA to respond to these letters not later than 4 pm ET on Monday, March 3 (NMB letter).
Late yesterday, February 27, USAPA filed suit in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia for an injunction that would require the Company and APA to follow the provisions of the McCaskill-Bond Amendment (click here). In accord with Section 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs, the suit alleges that more than 20 days have passed since the SLI dispute arose, that no agreement has been reached, that USAPA has requested a list of arbitrators, and that the parties disagree about the applicability of the McCaskill-Bond Amendment. The suit will be served today (February 28) on the Company (both American and US Airways) and APA. Under the federal rules of civil procedure, the defendants are required to answer or otherwise plead in 21 days.
The purpose of the suit is simple: to require the Company and APA to follow the requirements of the McCaskill-Bond Amendment, which requires a prompt fair and equitable resolution of the SLI dispute that arose when the two airlines merged. This has been carefully considered and is necessary to protect the seniority rights of our pilots. We will keep you informed of further developments.
USAPA Communications
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Meet the enemy, APA
This is a chronological summary of some of the Seniority List Integration (SLI) events of the last 10 days. All the documents linked below are also posted on the USAPA Web site.
On February 18, as previously reported, the parties to the MOU (the Company, APA and USAPA) were unable to reach agreement on a Protocol Agreement that would have established the process for seniority list integration. This was the deadline under the MOU, as extended by the mutual agreement of the parties. The impasse resulted when the Company, APA, and USAPA were unable to agree on what authority APA would have to amend the protocol agreement if and when APA became the certified representative following a single carrier finding by the National Mediation Board (NMB). USAPA was unwilling to waive its rights as a party in the McCaskill-Bond SLI proceeding and was unwilling to allow the Company and APA unlimited control over the Merger Committee, funding for the committee, and the process for SLI.
On February 20, as was reported in a President's Message, following the impasse, USAPA sent a request (click here) to the NMB for a list of arbitrators. This request was made under the provisions of McCaskill-Bond and Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions, which are incorporated in the McCaskill-Bond Amendment. In particular, Section 13(a) of the LPPs provides:
SECTION 13.
(a) In the event that any dispute or controversy (except as to matters arising under section 9) [section 9 of the LPPs involves moving expenses and is not relevant to the SLI process] arises with respect to the protections provided herein which cannot be settle by the parties within 20 days after the controversy arises, it may be referred by any party to an arbitrator selected from a panel of seven names furnished by the National Mediation Board for consideration and determination. The parties shall select the arbitrator from such panel by alternatively striking names until only one remains, and he shall serve as arbitrator. Expedited hearings and decisions will be expected, and a decision shall be rendered within 90 days after the controversy arises, unless an extension of time it is mutually agreeable to all parties. The salary and expenses of the arbitrator shall be borne equally by the carrier and (i) the organization or organizations representing employee or employees or (ii) if unrepresented, the employee or employees or group or groups of employees. The decision of the arbitrator shall be final and binding on the parties.
Section 13(b provides that the process provided in Section 13(a):
shall not apply if the parties by mutual agreement determine that an alternative method for dispute settlement or an alternative procedure for selection of an arbitrator is appropriate in their particular dispute. No party shall be excused from complying with the above condition by reason of having suggested an alternative method or procedure unless and until that alternative method or procedure shall have been agreed to by all parties.
On February 25, the Company and APA filed identical grievances under the MOU alleging that USAPAs request to the NMB violated the MOU and asked that USAPA be directed to rescind the request and bargain in good faith over a process to select a panel of arbitrators (Company MTA#4 and APA MTA #4).
On February 26, the Company and APA sent similar letters (Company Letter and APA Letter) to the NMB taking the position that the NMB should not issue the list of arbitrators until the grievances were resolved. On February 27, the NMB asked USAPA to respond to these letters not later than 4 pm ET on Monday, March 3 (NMB letter).
Late yesterday, February 27, USAPA filed suit in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia for an injunction that would require the Company and APA to follow the provisions of the McCaskill-Bond Amendment (click here). In accord with Section 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs, the suit alleges that more than 20 days have passed since the SLI dispute arose, that no agreement has been reached, that USAPA has requested a list of arbitrators, and that the parties disagree about the applicability of the McCaskill-Bond Amendment. The suit will be served today (February 28) on the Company (both American and US Airways) and APA. Under the federal rules of civil procedure, the defendants are required to answer or otherwise plead in 21 days.
The purpose of the suit is simple: to require the Company and APA to follow the requirements of the McCaskill-Bond Amendment, which requires a prompt fair and equitable resolution of the SLI dispute that arose when the two airlines merged. This has been carefully considered and is necessary to protect the seniority rights of our pilots. We will keep you informed of further developments.
USAPA Communications
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Meet the enemy, APA
Res Judicata
Veteran
Another lawsuit? HA! Keep possible g away that cash morons. The company has 21 days to respond. It's 50/50 if the NMB will rule by then. USCABA will implode/evaporate long before a judge even looks at it. The USAPA motto: "ITS NOT FAIR!!!!!!!!"
Idiots🙂
Idiots🙂
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
