2014 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

Yeah, if you guys don't start acting nicer i'm going to be the only westoff left on here. Where's the fun in that, i'm just a boring beancounter. I don't even make cool videos.
Bean

Undoubtedly the nicest poster here of all the sides.
We all aspire to your level of civility Bean. But fall short.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
 
Believe it or not the whole world and even American Airlines doesn't revolve around USAPA. 

 
Yeah, but it certainly seems to be the center of your attention for these past several years.

 

[traderjake]

Says the guy with 2000 more posts than me.

 

[Piedmont1984]

USAPA asked for the arbitration panel to be named. If it goes to them before SCS, what DFR liability can the APA possibly have?

I think they have asked for a single arbitrator under the provisions of Para 20 of the MOU. This is different from the full panel hearing and deciding an ISL. The MOU stipulates that arbitration over the ISL cannot begin until we have a JCBA.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Says the guy with 2000 more posts than me.

Yes, but I never said what you did.
 
The world does indeed revolve around USAPA!
 
 

 

[nevergiveup]

It would not surprise me at all to see APA and USAPA emerge Sunday afternoon with a new list.

 

[Pi brat]

I think they have asked for a single arbitrator under the provisions of Para 20 of the MOU. This is different from the full panel hearing and deciding an ISL. The MOU stipulates that arbitration over the ISL cannot begin until we have a JCBA.

I guess I misunderstood.
 
Dear Mr. Rainey:
USAPA requests that the NMB issue a list of seven arbitrators pursuant to the McCaskill-Bond Amendment and Section 13(a) of the Allegheny-Mohawk LLPs which the Amendment incorporates. In relevant part, Section 13(a) provides that if the parties to a merger seniority dispute have not come to agreement on a method of integrating seniority within 20 days of the dispute, the dispute “may be referred by any party to an arbitrator selected from a panel of seven names furnished by the National Mediation Board for consideration and determination.”
We therefore request a list of seven arbitrators for the purpose of resolving the issue of seniority integration arising from the merger of American and US Airways. We recognize that it is the responsibility of the NMB to fashion the list. Nevertheless, given the nature of the dispute, we suggest that the arbitrators on the list be members of the National Academy of Arbitrators, have substantial airline industry experience and, in order to permit the most efficient and effective proceeding, have experience in airline seniority integration proceedings
The other parties to the dispute and their representatives are listed below and have been sent copies of this letter.
Very truly yours,
Captain Gary Hummel
President

 

[PullUp]

Question: When Airtran and SW (dissimilar unions) merged, at what point did the NMB grant SCS and what effect did that have on the S/L negotiations?
Cheers.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I guess I misunderstood.
 
Dear Mr. Rainey:
USAPA requests that the NMB issue a list of seven arbitrators pursuant to the McCaskill-Bond Amendment and Section 13(a) of the Allegheny-Mohawk LLPs which the Amendment incorporates. In relevant part, Section 13(a) provides that if the parties to a merger seniority dispute have not come to agreement on a method of integrating seniority within 20 days of the dispute, the dispute may be referred by any party to an arbitrator selected from a panel of seven names furnished by the National Mediation Board for consideration and determination.
We therefore request a list of seven arbitrators for the purpose of resolving the issue of seniority integration arising from the merger of American and US Airways. We recognize that it is the responsibility of the NMB to fashion the list. Nevertheless, given the nature of the dispute, we suggest that the arbitrators on the list be members of the National Academy of Arbitrators, have substantial airline industry experience and, in order to permit the most efficient and effective proceeding, have experience in airline seniority integration proceedings
The other parties to the dispute and their representatives are listed below and have been sent copies of this letter.
Very truly yours,
Captain Gary Hummel
President

Maybe I'm wrong but here is a portion of Para 10 of the MOU:

........-Bond. That arbitration proceeding will commence no later than 60 days after the designation of the arbitrators, or as soon thereafter as practicable given the availability of the designated arbitrators, provided that it is understood that, in no event, shall the seniority integration arbitration proceeding commence prior to final approval of the JCBA pursuant to the deadlines and procedures in Paragraph 27 below. The panel of arbitrators will render its award within six (6) months of the commencement of the ......

Actually, I am wrong. Which means USAPA is requesting an early arbitration. One that complies with Section 13a of AM, but does not comply with the MOU.

Unless I'm wrong about that too.

 

[prechilill]

Question: When Airtran and SW (dissimilar unions) merged, at what point did the NMB grant SCS and what effect did that have on the S/L negotiations?
Cheers.

Pilots haven't filed.
Mechanics, filed July 5, 2012 and the NMB declared a single carrier status on September 27, 2012.  Two months three weeks.  
Note, the NMB still recognized that AirTran was marketed separately, had different uniforms and only three airplanes were painted in Southwest colors.  SCS was still granted because the management was the same and it was "obvious the companies were to continue to merge".
 
USAPA has about two weeks left.
 
 
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2012/39n067.pdf

 

[nevergiveup]

Maybe I'm wrong but here is a portion of Para 10 of the MOU:

........-Bond. That arbitration proceeding will commence no later than 60 days after the designation of the arbitrators, or as soon thereafter as practicable given the availability of the designated arbitrators, provided that it is understood that, in no event, shall the seniority integration arbitration proceeding commence prior to final approval of the JCBA pursuant to the deadlines and procedures in Paragraph 27 below. The panel of arbitrators will render its award within six (6) months of the commencement of the ......

2+3=6 

 

[prechilill]

Pilots haven't filed.
Mechanics, filed July 5, 2012 and the NMB declared a single carrier status on September 27, 2012.  Two months three weeks.  
Note, the NMB still recognized that AirTran was marketed separately, had different uniforms and only three airplanes were painted in Southwest colors.  SCS was still granted because the management was the same and it was "obvious the companies were to continue to merge".
 
USAPA has about two weeks left.
 
 
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2012/39n067.pdf

 
Final declaration made October 18, AMFA became the CBA for all mechanics at Southwest and Air Tran.  
 
 
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2013/40n006.pdf
 
 
By the above timelines, USAPA has about two weeks before the initial statement from the NMB followed by about another three to declare APA the single union representing pilots at American and US Airways.

 

[Phoenix]

I guess I misunderstood.
 
Dear Mr. Rainey:
USAPA requests that the NMB issue a list of seven arbitrators pursuant to the McCaskill-Bond Amendment and Section 13(a) of the Allegheny-Mohawk LLPs which the Amendment incorporates. In relevant part, Section 13(a) provides that if the parties to a merger seniority dispute have not come to agreement on a method of integrating seniority within 20 days of the dispute, the dispute may be referred by any party to an arbitrator selected from a panel of seven names furnished by the National Mediation Board for consideration and determination.
We therefore request a list of seven arbitrators for the purpose of resolving the issue of seniority integration arising from the merger of American and US Airways. We recognize that it is the responsibility of the NMB to fashion the list. Nevertheless, given the nature of the dispute, we suggest that the arbitrators on the list be members of the National Academy of Arbitrators, have substantial airline industry experience and, in order to permit the most efficient and effective proceeding, have experience in airline seniority integration proceedings
The other parties to the dispute and their representatives are listed below and have been sent copies of this letter.
Very truly yours,
Captain Gary Hummel
President

Good point. Clear assertion of MB rights and enumeration of the parties to the dispute. In some circles one must "dress to impress" to have access. The $675 tie around Marty's neck was a nice touch, but failed to impress!

 

[Phoenix]

Pilots haven't filed.
Mechanics, filed July 5, 2012 and the NMB declared a single carrier status on September 27, 2012.  Two months three weeks.  
Note, the NMB still recognized that AirTran was marketed separately, had different uniforms and only three airplanes were painted in Southwest colors.  SCS was still granted because the management was the same and it was "obvious the companies were to continue to merge".
 
USAPA has about two weeks left.
 
 
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2012/39n067.pdf

Tic toc.

How many days left to appeal the order stating the west has no statutory entitlement to participate?

 

[A320 Driver]

Maybe I'm wrong but here is a portion of Para 10 of the MOU:

........-Bond. That arbitration proceeding will commence no later than 60 days after the designation of the arbitrators, or as soon thereafter as practicable given the availability of the designated arbitrators, provided that it is understood that, in no event, shall the seniority integration arbitration proceeding commence prior to final approval of the JCBA pursuant to the deadlines and procedures in Paragraph 27 below. The panel of arbitrators will render its award within six (6) months of the commencement of the ......

Actually, I am wrong. Which means USAPA is requesting an early arbitration. One that complies with Section 13a of AM, but does not comply with the MOU.

Unless I'm wrong about that too.

I agree. It looks early to me. MOU says 90 days from the POR to make the request. But the MOU doesn't provide for our current circumstance, namely, no SLI protocol agreement. And no one could have anticipated Judge Silver's assertion that USAPA cannot represent the US Airways pilots in SLI arbitration after single carrier status is granted OR the APA jumping on her bandwagon trying to go around what was obviously the intentions of the parties going into the MOU. Here we are again in uncharted territory. What we need, IMO, is someone to study Delta/Northwest and United/Continental to come up with a reasonable guide to what we can expect out of arbitration and see what such a list would look like. I'd like to know.