2014 Pilot Discussion

[end_of_alpa]

Hopefully, we won't need any. If the brain trust at USAPA has any sense, they will show up with the two seniority lists that are currently in use...one East, one West. There is no NIC list to present. It has no basis in fact and no contract to perpetuate it's use. Judge Silver has stated repeatedly that is does not have to be used. Let the arbitrators sort it out. If my information is correct, that is all they really need. It is likely they will slot by equipment so expect the 777 and A330s slotted together, then the 767s, then the 757s, so on and so forth.
 
And we will ALL live unhappily ever after (the sign of a "good" SLI) B)

If you're "information" is correct?  You mean like you have some "inside" information that USAPA will argue that or that the arbitrator will rule that way?  Hardly.
 
Attrition is a BIG factor that has yet to play out here and in any event slotting the way YOU envision it creates MORE problems than it solves.
 
Of course Silver Airlines is offering $12,000 signing bonuses so American Airline attrition that we bring will only give those new hires an interesting choice.
 
BTW.... USAPA "brain trust"?  I don't happen to see much brains over at AWA or APA either.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Snap,
 
I agree,  you guys are in a bad spot.   I think the major mistake the west made was years ago as one of your former reps spoke about in that letter.    Had the west accepted the 8 year fence, which would have been basically meaningless once the age 65 changed,  but that was not known at the time,  the west would currently be fence free and bidding via the NIC with widebody positions and no base restrictions.
 
As it stands now,  I am not surprised that the APA seems to be leaning toward wanting the west as their own entity in this process.    That would greatly increase the probability that they could exclude the west from any widebody positions for the forseeable future.  After all the west has none.   It could also give them more traction on base fences as well.    Remember everything the APA is doing now is designed for only one purpose, further the goals of placing AA pilots above as many Airways pilots as possible.
 
So yes, I agree you are in a bad spot right now.  Where we disagree is the fact that you think it cannot get any worse.    My personal feeling is that you were royally screwed by AOL very early on.   You were sold a bill of goods about the NIC that the T/A as it was written did not back up.   If you could have forced the NIC it would be in place today after 9 years of legal battles.  It is not and now with this merger I have a feeling that the APA has plans to exploit the mistakes made by the AOL leadership so many years ago.    For what its worth, the APA is going to attempt to exploit every mistake that usapa made over the years too.
 
My feeling is the best the west can hope for now is 3 lists using the bases and equipment that we all had in December 2013 as the starting point.   That is probably going to mean no widebodys and limited bases for the west.     Time will tell if my feeling is correct.
 
Also I think that usapa coming to the table with anything other than a separate east and west list as it appeared dec 2013 would be a mistake,  that would open them up to all kinds of MOU issues in my opinion and leave usairways (east and west) in a much worse position SLI wise when the smoke clears.    But I am one vote and other than meaningless posts on a webboard such as this I have next to zero effect on what is occurring in the union politics.
 
Guess we will have all these answers in 18 to 36 months or so. 

Bingo except for one thing.  The west will NOT get a seat at the table.  I was just told Gary is very specific about this:  the west LOST. USAPA has the VERY HIGH GROUND and USAPA will fight the APA AND THE COMPANY in the courts and with the NMB.... all which has the very real traction of three wins in PHX and ALL THE CASE LAW up to this point.  Enjoy your stagnation and stay in PHX westicles.

 

[snapthis]

You would have gotten the appropriate advancement recognizing our time in service has the same value as yours.  You lost that AWA pilots time is more valuable.  Looking forward to watching you Westicles rot in PHX.  Three losses in PHX courts and still trying to be something you'll never be.  
 
Just wait until the NMB and the DC circuit weigh in.  Case law doesn't favor the APA and the company.  I'm waiting for my next gloating event!

 
It's not my responsibility to make your career whole or advance career expectations which are exactly that, expectations. You made your bed, your company was bankrupt as a result you would have advanced to to the unemployment line. Until Parker came along and dumped useless airways at our feet.
 
I'm gloating at the fact you'll be paying dues to the APA while paying for your ongoing legal wild goose chase. Karma at it's best.
 
You'll never have the unity that West pilots have, so dig deep.View attachment 10127
 
All six or 7 of you....View attachment 10128

 

[snapthis]

Bingo except for one thing.  The west will NOT get a seat at the table.  I was just told Gary is very specific about this:  the west LOST. USAPA has the VERY HIGH GROUND and USAPA will fight the APA AND THE COMPANY in the courts and with the NMB.... all which has the very real traction of three wins in PHX and ALL THE CASE LAW up to this point.  Enjoy your stagnation and stay in PHX westicles.

You told Gary...or is it was just told Gary...whatever.
 
What a loser.....View attachment 10129

 

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It's not my responsibility to make your career whole or advance career expectations which are exactly that, expectations. You made your bed, your company was bankrupt as a result you would have advanced to to the unemployment line. Until Parker came along and dumped useless airways at our feet.
 
I'm gloating at the fact you'll be paying dues to the APA while paying for your ongoing legal wild goose chase. Karma at it's best.
 
You'll never have the unity that West pilots have, so dig deep.

twocents.gif
 
All six or 7 of you....

woot2.gif

I'm gloating that East pilots will be able to bid positions over most of you westicles!  Yeah....that Karma.... it IS a B!TCH!

 

[end_of_alpa]

You told Gary...
 
Yea, and Gary is thinking the whole time....are you done yet?
 
What a loser.....

z7shysterical.gif

Read it again.  I HEARD IT.... I didn't tell HIM ANYTHING.
 
You're right.  You westicles are losers!

 

[snapthis]

Read it again.  I HEARD IT.... I didn't tell HIM ANYTHING.
 
You're right.  You westicles are losers!

So....you were told....who cares....

Hey DOHlt, I got something you can run to the chief pilot about.

A bag tag.... View attachment 10130

 

[traderjake]

The west will NOT get a seat at the table.  I was just told Gary is very specific about this:  the west LOST.

 
The West will have a seat on the table because APA and the Company want it.
 
USAPA and Gary will be gone soon.
 
Your fear of the West presenting their case in a fair and enforcable arbitration is noted.

 

[Metroyet]

You would have gotten the appropriate advancement recognizing our time in service has the same value as yours.  You lost that AWA pilots time is more valuable.  Looking forward to watching you Westicles rot in PHX.  Three losses in PHX courts and still trying to be something you'll never be.  
 
Just wait until the NMB and the DC circuit weigh in.  Case law doesn't favor the APA and the company.  I'm waiting for my next gloating event!

What did you win? Just because you've been able to make a royal mess of everything a union is supposed to be doesn't mean you've been successful at anything real. How many lawsuits is USAPA juggling now? When have they EVER not been up to their eyeballs in legal trouble? The APA got you a raise and USAPA got you 5 more years of loa93. No matter what you do, you'll never convince anyone that the us air AWA merger ever took place. You're so focused on the result of SLI, you've completely ignored the process which is why you've paid dearly to get nowhere. Gloat all you want, but most people understand USAPA has "won" themselves straight into oblivion.

 

[snapthis]

 
The West will have a seat on the table because APA and the Company want it.
 
USAPA and Gary will be gone soon.
 
Your fear of the West presenting their case in a fair and enforcable arbitration is noted.

 
EOA was that kid who always sat at the lunch table by himself. A lunchbox covered with purple turtles. He tries sooo hard to fit in. When you can't fit in, become an Usapian!
 

 

[Metroyet]

Read it again.  I HEARD IT.... I didn't tell HIM ANYTHING.
 
You're right.  You westicles are losers!

You're so blinded by hatred it's unbelievable. As a founder of USAPA, You're the prime example of how seriously you've taken USAPAS DFR to the West. USAPA is organized crime and Silver ordered you out of existence. You're only recourse is to the 9th. We all know where USAPA will be long before that happens...hanging out with MH370 utterly lost in the dark.

 

[snapthis]

You're so blinded by hatred it's unbelievable. As a founder of USAPA, You're the prime example of how seriously you've taken USAPAS DFR to the West.

He sees a bumper sticker or tie and runs to the Chief Pilot.

What a DOHrk.

 

[A320 Driver]

If you're "information" is correct?  You mean like you have some "inside" information that USAPA will argue that or that the arbitrator will rule that way?  Hardly.
 
Attrition is a BIG factor that has yet to play out here and in any event slotting the way YOU envision it creates MORE problems than it solves.
 
Of course Silver Airlines is offering $12,000 signing bonuses so American Airline attrition that we bring will only give those new hires an interesting choice.
 
BTW.... USAPA "brain trust"?  I don't happen to see much brains over at AWA or APA either.

Don't shoot the messenger. I am only relating what I read in some guidelines for arbitration that seem to be the present day footprint for how they are ruling. It is heavily weighted towards earnings rather than attrition or career expectations.
 
No, not many brains on any side as far as I can tell.

 

[Phoenix]

 

Was his question for you or me? If I need your help....strike that. I don't.

 


He did not ask you a question.  He made a statement.  You may need help after all.  Besides, was I talking to him, or you. 😉

 

[A320 Driver]

Bingo except for one thing.  The west will NOT get a seat at the table.  I was just told Gary is very specific about this:  the west LOST. USAPA has the VERY HIGH GROUND and USAPA will fight the APA AND THE COMPANY in the courts and with the NMB.... all which has the very real traction of three wins in PHX and ALL THE CASE LAW up to this point.  Enjoy your stagnation and stay in PHX westicles.

No olive branches in there... B)