2014 Pilot Discussion

[flybynite]

Oh! For god's sake! You guys still squabbling over the Nic Award? Wake the bloody hell up...you guys are going to be completly rolled over by APA. 

 

[EastUS1]

Oh! For god's sake! You guys still squabbling over the Nic Award? Wake the bloody hell up...you guys are going to be completly rolled over by APA. 

 
If the APA could get their way; that's an historically established certainty. They're certainly attempting their best efforts in current times as well. Excuse us if we (the east) prevent that as best we can, for which the west contingent and their nic nonsense matter not at all, except to play the part of "useful idiots" and idiotically supportive court jesters for the APA, for the latter's continued amusement.

 

[flybynite]

Okay..just got a negative on my post.  And that means what? You don't believe me?  Or you just don't like the truth? 

 

[mrbreeze]

East,
 
Thanks for the PM asking about my daughter, Rebecca. I want to share this publicly, so thus, the post.
 
Rebecca is doing great and will be off to college this fall. Several months ago I told her to spend whatever she needed to and I would pay for college applications. She has been accepted to 5 colleges with grants at each one. About 2 months ago, out of the blue, she said that she had an interview with a rep from Harvard.....I was totally surprised. She did the interview, thought it went well, but was turned down last month. It was exciting that she even got the interview, but she admitted that she was relieved that she wouldn't be that far from home with her Diabetes.
 
Now.....bottom line is that the reason that she got interviewed with Harvard is because of this: Thanks to the generous donations from many of our pilots, East and West, the regional manager for the Tour de Cure fundraiser was so impressed with her that she wrote a wonderful reference letter to Harvard for her.
 
I do know that we all have our differences, but when someone "pays it forward" to help one of your kids....well, it's very humbling. I have no enemies East or West, and appreciate the fact that you guys lifted her up. And, ya know, with Diabetes, the lifting up and giving hope is as important as anything in life.
 
thanks friends,
breeze

 

[flybynite]

I'm hearing you EastUS1....

 

[EastUS1]

East,
 
Thanks for the PM asking about my daughter, Rebecca. I want to share this publicly, so thus, the post.
 
Rebecca is doing great and will be off to college this fall. Several months ago I told her to spend whatever she needed to and I would pay for college applications. She has been accepted to 5 colleges with grants at each one. About 2 months ago, out of the blue, she said that she had an interview with a rep from Harvard.....I was totally surprised. She did the interview, thought it went well, but was turned down last month. It was exciting that she even got the interview, but she admitted that she was relieved that she would be that far from home with here Diabetes.
 
Now.....bottom line is that the reason that she got interviewed with Harvard is because of this: Thanks to the generous donations from many of our pilots, East and West, the regional manager for the Tour de Cure fundraiser was so impressed with her she wrote a wonderful reference letter to Harvard for her.
 
I do know that we all have our differences, but when someone "pays it forward" to help one of your kids....well, it's very humbling. I have no enemies East or West, and appreciate the fact that you guys lifted her up. And, ya know, with Diabetes, the lifting up and giving hope is as important as anything in life.
 
thanks friends,
breeze

 
I couldn't be more pleased breeze. You clearly "rock" as a dad, as does your young lady as a daughter and human being. 🙂 May God Bless you both and grant her a wonderful life.
 
P.S. In long-ago life...had the Harvard bit offered, but one must look at exactly what programs, studies, etc she thinks best for herself and her goals. Harvard's a wonderful and obviously prestigious school, but not necessarily the be-end-all, purely depending on what she wants to do...Just sayin'. If it's medical or law: no question, but, etc....I'll shut up with that right there, since it's been two full decades plus since I've seriously examined universities for best placing one's "children"...and WAY longer than that for myself. 🙂

 

[EastUS1]

Okay..just got a negative on my post.  And that means what? You don't believe me?  Or you just don't like the truth? 

 
Not from the likes of me fly. You're dead-on with your concerns here. The east is dealing with almost literally village idiots in PHX that somehow/who-knows-why imagine the APA to be their BFF, and will, despite the west's insanity, work for an an actually equitable SLI, versus what the APA would like to do....See listings under TWA/etc.

 

[flybynite]

Yes, while you guys are busy poking each other in the eye, APA is on course to roll you over. Until you guys get your act together, you will be disadvantaged. Pull your selves together.

 

[Claxon]

"MEC Chairman’s Message
 
February 8, 2008
 
This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a chairman’s message to the pilots for Friday, February 08, 2008.
 
After nine days of talks between the US Airways and America West Steering Committees, The America West contingent has chosen to stand down talks. At this time they are not prepared to address seniority implementation issues, specifically, mitigating the damages caused by the Nicolau Award.
 
Recall that we met to determine if we had enough common ground between us on important issues to come up with a comprehensive counterproposal for both MECs to review. As we told you, this counterproposal would have to adequately address not only all open JNC issues, but more importantly for the AAA pilots, pay parity and seniority protection. We came to the neutral site at Wye River, MD with these goals in mind, and within these goals we developed certain thresholds needing to be achieved for the benefit of the US Airways pilots. Despite what you may have heard or read, none of that changed during the meeting.
 
While we respect what the AWA pilots were there to accomplish, the US Airways MEC’s position remains the same and our MEC’s Steering Committee members did not compromise that position. We never wavered from our goal of protecting you from the Nicolau Award, and our threshold for meeting those goals never changed.
 
I’ll be calling the MEC into session for a special meeting next week. While there is no comprehensive counterproposal to bring back to the MEC, they'll receive a briefing on the process, and I plan to add two other items to the agenda: developing a distribution methodology for 2007 Profit Sharing and Stock Options and to review an agreement extending the time frame for filing disputes concerning flow-through issues.
 
The MEC will now review our options. Keep in mind that the odds of any plan we develop succeeding are greatly diminished by members of this MEC continuing to cower behind their fear of failure and seeking to sabotage any process we elect to pursue. You can see that all of the noise and accusations coming out of PHL Council 41 about the work of our Steering Committee was unfounded and disingenuous. When it came time to meet directly with our AWA counterparts, we did exactly what we said we would, AAA pilots working with AWA pilots trying to mitigate the damages of the Nicolau Award.
 
Excuses and alibis will not replace leadership. We made a promise, and we kept it. There was no cramdown, no end-run deal, no deal chasing and no back room conspiracies. I hope you did not fall for these contrived ideas spread in order to try and scare you. The majority of this MEC and your MEC officers are not afraid of failure. We said we were going to look under every stone to find solutions and we meant it. My only fear is that some of our MEC fear the search may actually produce something that would require
them to lead rather than criticize. I can tell you that the majority of your MEC was willing to continue the search. Although this process has not worked so far, we are no worse off for engaging in the exercise.
 
You would have been extremely proud of our team of pilots who met at the Wye River Conference Center. These are men of honor and integrity and they are most importantly, men of their word. Their commitment to the process and to you was rock solid. Threats and intimidation attempts by some minority disenchanted MEC members and paper tigers did not sway these men of honor from pursuing the direction that the majority of the MEC had set. They did their best trying to reach a solution to the Nicolau Award. At this time the AWA pilots are unwilling to address our seniority concerns. Again, we are no worse off for having engaged in this process. We remain right where we started and that is in separate operations with the West.
 
I thank you for your patience during the past few weeks. I know it’s been difficult. There will be other options at our disposal after the MEC gets the chance to strategize internally next week. While conditions and opportunities may change, the goal has not and our threshold for success has not. Our mission remains the same, to protect you from the damages caused by the Nicolau Award.
 
Thank you for listening. As always, fly safe and continue to look out for each other."

 

[flybynite]

Okay...that's from 2008. How about something from 2014?

 

[EastUS1]

At this time the AWA pilots are unwilling to address our seniority concerns.
 
Thank you for listening. As always, fly safe and continue to look out for each other."

 
"At this time the AWA pilots are unwilling to address our seniority concerns." Oh well...."You won't even get 200 cards!"...."Send the cards, I DARE you!"..."Final and binding!...It's OVER, get used to it!", "Ho ho ho! St Nic is coming to town!"..."The nic will be crammed down your throats!" and even "Booyooshaka!" Sigh! How'd any of that really work out for "you'se" infantile, greed-soaked utter morons in PHX/"This is sparta!"? How about: "You can live on LOA93 forever!"? What can really be said here, now seven years later? "Stupid is as stupid does"?...Or just "Enjoy PHX"? "You'se" have earned that, if nothing else. 😉  No matter really: Just go buy your vaunted and unquestionably intellectually elite "I hate all of you'se!" selves some more ties, mighty "spartans". "You'se" awesome "army" desperately needs the money:  http://www.cactuspilotcontributors.com/libertynecktie.html

 

[Claxon]

west pilots, you claimed in your DFR legal briefs that the kirby was turned down only by the East pilots.  johnny mac also claimed the west would not approve the kirby.
 
 
AMERICA WEST MEC
Air Line Pilots Association
432 N. 44th Street
Phoenix, AZ 85008
(602) 306-1208
 
US AIRWAYS MEC
Air Line Pilots Association
Suite 340 One Thorn Run Center, Suite 400
1187 Thorn Road Extension
Coraopolis, PA 15108
(412) 264-5600
 
January 31, 2008
 
A AAA/AWA Joint Chairman's message has been emailed to pilots and posted under What's New. The text of the letter is below:
 
AAA-AWA MEC Joint Chairman’s Message
 
 
 
Fellow America West and US Airways pilots,
 
Today, the AAA and AWA Steering Committees and their respective merger and
negotiating teams will begin talks about the issues separating our pilot groups in
order to produce a comprehensive contract counterproposal for both MECs to
review. As we have said in the past, any comprehensive proposal must adequately
address seniority implementation issues and all open JNC issues for both pilot
groups.
 
The Steering Committees are meeting at a neutral site, and to give this process
the best chance for success, both sides have agreed to a communications blackout
during this time. As a result of this policy, our pilots should understand that any
hearsay information floating around is unsubstantiated, and should be treated as
rumor only.
 
If the AAA and AWA Steering Committees are able to successfully produce a
comprehensive contract counterproposal, it will first be reviewed by both MECs. If
both MECs approve the final product, JNC negotiations would resume with
management as we counter the infamous “Kirby proposal” that we received on
May 8, 2007.
 
If a TA is achieved through joint negotiations and is subsequently approved by
both MECs it will be sent to each pilot group for ratification. The rank and file
members of this union will be the ultimate arbiters of any agreement.
 
There is much at stake here for both pilot groups. None of your union volunteers
takes the challenges ahead of us lightly. Your MEC leadership and the Steering
Committees all appreciate your patience while we work through these very
difficult issues.
 
Fraternally,
 
Captain Jack Stephan
Chairman, AAA MEC
 
Captain John McIlvenna
Chairman, AWA MEC

 

[Claxon]

Okay...that's from 2008. How about something from 2014?

The 9th Circuit Court will provide the 2014 update you requested.

 

[EastUS1]

The 9th Circuit Court will provide the 2014 update you requested.

 
Or 2015, or...who knows?

 

[Claxon]

 
"MEC Chairman’s Message January 18, 2008
 
This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a Chairman’s message to the pilots for Friday, January 18, 2008.
 
As you know, the US Airways MEC and America West MEC have appointed members of Steering Committees to address the major issues between us, including our issues with the Nicolau award. On January 11, 2008, all US Airways and America West pilots received a letter from ALPA President Captain John Prater, pledging his support and the support of the Association for the steering committee process. We have also received support from ALPA’s Executive Board, and this week, ALPA’s Executive Council is working on a resolution that would financially commit the Association to further funding this important work.
 
For the second week in a row, I have worked with the members of our Steering Committee who are charged with directing this process. These pilots have the responsibility of “exploring consensual approaches that promote mutual career protections and mutual success, as part of achieving acceptable collective bargaining outcomes that improve pay, benefits, work rules, and career security for both pilot groups.” Captain Prater also went on to write in his letter to us that in order to satisfy the requirements for membership ratification, “the proposed joint contract must address the concerns of both pilot groups.” Addressing the negative effects of the Nicolau Award and mitigating its damages is our concern.
 
The Three Man Steering Committee will be meeting next week with their AWA counterparts to determine if there is enough common ground to move forward to a “lock-down negotiating session.” If the discussions next week with the AWA pilots are successful, we would then agree to meet at a neutral location for a period of no less than 10 consecutive days to work through issues important to both pilots groups. I believe it is safe to say that implementing the Nicolau Award and contract advances are important to the AWA pilots. And we know that along with much-needed contractual advances, we need to address and resolve our issues with the negative effects of the Nicolau Award.
 
The success or failure of our endeavors will fall squarely on whether or not we can address the Nicolau Award in a manner that is acceptable to both pilot groups. We will find out in short order during our lock-down negotiations with AWA if such actions are possible. If they are, we will continue in this process that would also address all open outstanding JNC issues. The final product, if acceptable to both Steering Committees, would then be presented to each MEC for their approval and review. If both MECs are satisfied that the entire package adequately addresses the issues that are important to each, JNC negotiations would resume with management.
 
As you can see, there are a lot of “ifs” in this process. There are no guarantees here, just a commitment on the part of your MEC to engage in a process that might produce something that would be acceptable to you. If it is not, we are no worse for trying. If we fail in our efforts, both pilot groups will resort back to separate operations under their current contracts.
 
So that’s where we are right now. If our meeting next week is successful, the individuals participating in this process (right now, that is our Three Man Steering Committee—Garland Jones, Don Iorio and Rocco Spartano; our Merger Committee; our JNC, including Dean Colello; MEC Vice Chairman Kim Snider and myself) will pack our bags in preparation for the 10-day lock down negotiations with the West pilots. At the conclusion of that lock down, we will let you know whether or not there is anything for your MEC to consider and whether or not there is any chance that JNC negotiations would resume. Until then, all we ask is that you give this process every chance to succeed."