2015 AMT Discussion

[WeAAsles]

Thant's exactly why MEchanics feel like they get that it is a Fleet Service ran union. Why should either group be compensated based on the the other.

Ok let me see if I can make this a little clearer for you?

Take:

The US IAM MECHANIC contract (or)
The AA TWU MECHANIC contract

Take:

The US IAM FLEET contract (or)
The AA TWU FLEET contract.

Got it?

I still doubt it would have been as simple as that but? And it was the Company rep Jerry Glass who said it and was told basically to take a flying leap.

 

[dfw gen]

Here's the thing. YOU guys do what you feel you need to do and think the way you want to think. But if a new guy gets in I'm going to give him a chance and listen to him before I make up my opinion of him if he's giving me a snow job or not?

Take Parker for instance. I asked him about OUR Prefunding match in two roadshow stops in a row here in MIA. He practically swore up and down and I quote "No one is trying to take your money" Come to find out yes he is trying to take OUR money. The trust is not completely funded with OUR matching amounts and he wants to keep it if they have to pay for active retirees.

Then Parker goes around in roadshows telling people that we won't have to give anything up to get the Delta plus 3% (Already dropping down from the 7%) Now come to find out that his negotiators are talking about concessions.

So yea. He got in. I gave him a chance and listened to his words and now I have no reason to believe him because obviously he's not a man of his words and they mean nothing. I won't waste my time at any more roadshows. 

 

14 months since everyone but association members got a raise. 9 months since the fix was in on the assocuation. All we have are uniforms and bulletin boards, how much of a chance do you give them? It's a record profit cycle and we are seeing nothing. Nothing at all but more concessions. When do YOU draw the line? I mean it's only been 13 years of conxessions.

 

[WeAAsles]

14 months since everyone but association members got a raise. 9 months since the fix was in on the assocuation. All we have are uniforms and bulletin boards, how much of a chance do you give them? It's a record profit cycle and we are seeing nothing. Nothing at all but more concessions. When do YOU draw the line? I mean it's only been 13 years of conxessions.

And they are drawing the line. They're saying NO CONCESSIONS. But then the same guys on here who want to talk tough start saying "Oh they're crazy, the company is going to want something"

I mean make up your minds? Which one is it now? Do you want them to stand firm or hurry it up? And the Company is the one shirking on the schedules. You think this guy and whoever else is in that room on the companies side isn't doing other things besides negotiating our contracts?

dfw gen which one do you want? Draw the line or Hurry up?

http://www.fhsolutionsgroup.com/our_consultants/jerry-glass

 

[chilokie1]

Alright explain to me how the dues work at AMFA? Cause that's what we're talking about I'm sure. From what I've heard about dues structures the TWU and only one other Union out there do it that way? Two times the hourly rate. So yea I guess you can hire in a ton of people at $12.00 per hour and that's $24.00 per month or they can get you a $5.00 per hour raise instead and that's an extra $10.00 per month above what you're already paying. The numbers under that scenario absolutely support more people. (not as much as the weighted average that other Unions use)

But how does the Company figure in to the equation? with benefits that they're already paying you wouldn't they rather just give you a raise and not incur the added cost of a second person on their medical dole?

If dues are the problem as you see it and you really believe that every "industrial" Union is caught in the trap of wanting more and more flow. How do you solve the problem?

But can you still be fair and give me an answer to my original question of what those guys I posted have done to you guys specifically? Have you ever talked to any of them or even consider giving them a chance?

 
It is not the guys it is the system, I hope that this solidarity of any job movement is real and if
the present group of guys change the way things have been done in the past. I can't give you a
better example of the international deciding what is best for its membership then the Association
being shoved down our throats. Not a single local had a voice in it, my local Pres. Danker told me
he learned about it when the membership did.
 Giving away profit sharing is another classic example, it cost me 20 months of a 4.3% raise for
the loss of profit sharing. We could do nothing! All we got was "they can do that brother" from
our local.  

 

[MetalMover]

And thinking like that then why didn't we just take the original dismissive offer from Jerry Glass?

"Why don't you just pick which contract you like better and we'll give you the money"

Nah. I'd like to think that the company can do just a little better than that don't you think?

Yes they can do better...But if you think they are going to just fork over money and get nothing in return, you might be dreaming too. 
Maybe we should just wait until 2018 when the contract expires and start the whole process all over again......
Do you really think they want to pay us better than Delta without working like Delta?

 

[WeAAsles]

 
It is not the guys it is the system, I hope that this solidarity of any job movement is real and if
the present group of guys change the way things have been done in the past. I can't give you a
better example of the international deciding what is best for its membership then the Association
being shoved down our throats. Not a single local had a voice in it, my local Pres. Danker told me
he learned about it when the membership did.
  

Have you ever asked Dale what the new Int'l guys thought about the Association when they got in. Did you ever ask Dale if they tried to do anything to get out of it? Ask Dale if he thinks the two sides are getting along better than they first did? Dale will know those answers better than anyone. That's if you trust what Dale tells you?

And I agreed and always will agree 100% that we should have voted for it before they agreed to sign the papers.
 

 

 Giving away profit sharing is another classic example, it cost me 20 months of a 4.3% raise for
the loss of profit sharing. We could do nothing! All we got was "they can do that brother" from
our local.  

The first 10% was given away for improvements off the bankruptcy crap. And we gave away the last 5% for the 4.3% raise.

C'mon be honest. Did any of us have ANY clue at all that this freakin company would make 7 Billion in Profit in ONE year?

So they took the sure thing rather than betting against the odds. Would you have bet the odds instead?

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes they can do better...But if you think they are going to just fork over money and get nothing in return, you might be dreaming too. 
Maybe we should just wait until 2018 when the contract expires and start the whole process all over again......
Do you really think they want to pay us better than Delta without working like Delta?

I'm not going to guess what the Company is going to do? That's why I pay this Union/s to negotiate for me. And I also expect and so should all of us that they have the best advisers money can buy on their side to help them.

 

[Buck]

Ok let me see if I can make this a little clearer for you?

Take:

The US IAM MECHANIC contract (or)
The AA TWU MECHANIC contract

Take:

The US IAM FLEET contract (or)
The AA TWU FLEET contract.

Got it?

I still doubt it would have been as simple as that but? And it was the Company rep Jerry Glass who said it and was told basically to take a flying leap.

You cannot be as naive as you portray yourself to be. If you really believe that because Fleet has a separate contract in a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement and that one does not affect the other, I for one have given you way to much credit for you knowledge in negotiations. Tell me, are the mechanics not going to have the IAMPF and Fleet is? You know very well  that the negotiators are going to place the same parameters on both "sub-contracts". Stop acting stupid, because you are not. If it is Delta plus 3 for the mechanics it is going to be Delta plus 3 for the Fleet, come on it's an Industrial Union.

 

[D7571987]

Make sure the members and union negotiators know that Fedex mechanics are currently making over $53 an hour and UPS is similar and that UPS mechs are currently in negotiations and reportedly looking for $60 an hour.
 
The airlines are making just as much or more profit than the shipping companies. 

 

[1AA]

HAPPY PRESIDENTS DAY. Enjoy your holiday pay. Opps had a moment there. Forgot we lost it 13 years ago. I believe the UsAir guys are on H.P. today.

 

[WeAAsles]

You cannot be as naive as you portray yourself to be. If you really believe that because Fleet has a separate contract in a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement and that one does not affect the other, I for one have given you way to much credit for you knowledge in negotiations. Tell me, are the mechanics not going to have the IAMPF and Fleet is? You know very well  that the negotiators are going to place the same parameters on both "sub-contracts". Stop acting stupid, because you are not. If it is Delta plus 3 for the mechanics it is going to be Delta plus 3 for the Fleet, come on it's an Industrial Union.

Buck if it's 3% or 7% or whatever percent. If you go by PERCENTAGES you are going to get a much larger raise then I will monetarily.

You do understand that percentages are different depending on where you're jumping up from right?

Easy math:

$30.00 + 20% = $6.00 or $36.00
$50.00 + 20% = $10.00 or $60.00

I'm sure that Delta Mechanics make substantially more than their Fleet counterparts. So of course your 3% above will be more than my 3%. 

 

[700UW]

Buck if it's 3% or 7% or whatever percent. If you go by PERCENTAGES you are going to get a much larger raise then I will monetarily.

You do understand that percentages are different depending on where you're jumping up from right?

Easy math:

$30.00 + 20% = $6.00 or $36.00
$50.00 + 20% = $10.00 or $60.00

I'm sure that Delta Mechanics make substantially more than their Fleet counterparts. So of course your 3% above will be more than my 3%. 

Well like I always say, some people should educate themselves before they post, so Buck do you understand the math now?

 

[WeAAsles]

Well like I always say, some people should educate themselves before they post, so Buck do you understand the math now?

700 please. I actually kind of like Buck.

 

[Buck]

Buck if it's 3% or 7% or whatever percent. If you go by PERCENTAGES you are going to get a much larger raise then I will monetarily.

You do understand that percentages are different depending on where you're jumping up from right?

Easy math:

$30.00 + 20% = $6.00 or $36.00
$50.00 + 20% = $10.00 or $60.00

I'm sure that Delta Mechanics make substantially more than their Fleet counterparts. So of course your 3% above will be more than my 3%. 

The math has nothing to do with my point. Talk about not getting it. Any energy put forth in negotiations to get any article whatever it is, you are telling me that none of these discussions are about both or all groups? Even Bulletin Boards? Then why have a JCBA? You and 700 are locked on industrial unionism of the 1940's. Why not let the mechanics negotiate at different years?
I am not talking about just the money. I really could care less what any other group makes. You going to tell me that the IAMPF is not going to be discussed for all groups as one item?

 

[Buck]

Well like I always say, some people should educate themselves before they post, so Buck do you understand the math now?

What you always like to do is to try to show how superior you think you are and on many occasions you make a mule's rear out of yourself.
 
Why do you think you are getting a lot of negatives ( RED ) marks on your posts? 
 
You have all of this knowledge and experience, try and change your delivery, man you are just rude....