A Call For Action!

[BigBangTheory]

When your worth $$$$$ Millions you can live like a Hollywood Star!

He certainly will not be getting an Academy Award or a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

Sick and disgusted but not surprised.

Time for unity and action. The AA BOD is next to hear from APFA and I can only hope this action is well organized, effective and WELL ATTENDED by our members.

 

[sarah warner]

The government with this huge deficit is giving money back so the economy is a house of cards... and it is not going to get better for a while. In January the new president will not be able to wave a wand to make things better..it will take time for the nation to rebound...Be thankful you have jobs; we all have to weather the storm...If people go on strike, bash management, have flu outs, no one will feel sorry for you.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

no one will feel sorry for you.

No one has ever felt sorry for anyone engaged in the transportation industry, not that truly meant it anyway. They are viewed as people to be taken for granted by the traveling public, and taken advantage of by the employers within the industry. It has always been that way.

 

[Skymess]

I question my own response. Were these monies bonuses or just part of their contract compensation package? As I understand it the stock distributions to the 5 upper managers amount to about 3.5-4 million. If it is in their contract they should be paid.

The APFA knew about the management compensation package all along and started arguing it when they actually took them. The big problem is that we got no snap backs under ward and Tommie and her full time trip removal cronies (glading including), campaigned HARD in ops across america(n) for a yes vote to avoid bankruptcy at all costs. They bought into the pull together-win together garbage and got a rude reality check when corporate management did what corporate managers do best these days................pillage the companies they work for at the expense of employees and shareholders.

No surprise there.


Here's my bag tag idea: "where's my money?"

Video demonstration:
http://www.tv.com/uservideos/?action=video...IXM7kWDx5bMKuD8

 

[L1011Ret]

The APFA knew about the management compensation package all along and started arguing it when they actually took them. The big problem is that we got no snap backs under ward and Tommie and her full time trip removal cronies (glading including), campaigned HARD in ops across america(n) for a yes vote to avoid bankruptcy at all costs. They bought into the pull together-win together garbage and got a rude reality check when corporate management did what corporate managers do best these days................pillage the companies they work for at the expense of employees and shareholders.

No surprise there.


Here's my bag tag idea: "where's my money?"

Video demonstration:
http://www.tv.com/uservideos/?action=video...IXM7kWDx5bMKuD8

But you did not answer the question, are these monies bonus or part of their contract?

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

I question my own response. Were these monies bonuses or just part of their contract compensation package? As I understand it the stock distributions to the 5 upper managers amount to about 3.5-4 million. If it is in their contract they should be paid.

Love the double standard
We had a contract also before it was taken away before the amendable date.
I love how everyone overlooks that little fact
OK for some not OK for others
Corporate greed
FURP
:down:

 

[jimntx]

Love the double standard
We had a contract also before it was taken away before the amendable date.
I love how everyone overlooks that little fact
OK for some not OK for others
Corporate greed
FURP
:down:

The difference being that my union (I don't know about yours) manipulated a Yes vote to our contractual changes. By allowing that to happen, we (APFA members) have no call to object on "legal" grounds to the executive bonusses using our concessions as a reason for the objection. Moral and ethical grounds? Maybe. Truth of the matter--the bonusses are a matter of contractual obligation on the company's part. It would be nice if the executives refused the bonusses, but there is no requirement that they do so.

No one including our respective unions asked the executives to amend their contracts. It's not being overlooked now. It was overlooked when it mattered.

We are always quick to demand that the company follow the letter and spirit of our CBAs. Why are we not just as demanding about them following their own contracts? <_<

 

[FWAAA]

But you did not answer the question, are these monies bonus or part of their contract?

It's in their contract and it's been in their contract for many years. Two years ago, when the PUP payouts were first paid, I argued that the word "bonus" was misleading because I tend to think of a bonus as "hey, look - we're really profitable, let's pay out a bonus of those profits to the employees."

These PUP (following year amended to PSP) contracts were signed years ago (and amended in 2003) and provided the execs with huge upside potential if they happened to be managing during a period when the AMR stock outperformed their "peer group."

Flawed metrics, to be sure, since once most of the peer group filed for Ch 11, it was a forgone conclusion that AMR stock would "outperform."

But execs cut their pay the week after September 11, 2001, and didn't get raises for several years. So this PUP/PSP compensation was their upside, just like the 35 million options granted to the nonunion employees was their upside.

Nobody has suggested that the rank and file return their profits from the 35 million options to the company.

Suggesting that the execs refuse their PSP payouts now smacks of Paycheck Envy.

Nearly every statement by the unions on these payouts is misleading and contains revisionist history. Almost none of the unions' statements acknowledge the 35 million options or the gift checks of $800 per employee earlier this year. All they say is that workers have received nothing and the greedy execs have received everything.

Everyone sacrificed. Some more than others. And everyone has participated in the upside. The 850 or so PSP execs have participated to a much larger extent than the rank and file. Anyone really surprised at that? Management always makes a lot more money than the rank and file, and this case is no exception.

Is it an unexpected "bonus?" Not really. It's what they were hoping to get in the future when they cut their own pay 6.5 years ago, earlier than their concession demands to the rank and file. And when they went without raises and while they watched greedy management at other companies make several times as much annual compensation.

Of course, the current displays of paycheck envy helps distract the union members from placing blame where it squarely belongs: On the three worthless impotent unions that permitted such disparity in potential rewards. IMO, it wasn't management's job to make certain the unions negotiated sufficient upside for their members. All three unions failed miserably in that mission. The concession paycuts were a given. Every airline was gonna have to slash pay and there isn't anything a union can do when an entire industry is bleeding cash. But the unions could have held out for more like 50% of the equity or 75% of the equity of AMR (instead of the measly 19% they received) in exchange for $8.1 billion of concessions. In January, 2007, the market cap of AMR hit $8 billion; in Spring of 2003, it had been a mere $300 million.

 

[Joe Patroni]

It's in their contract and it's been in their contract for many years. Two years ago, when the PUP payouts were first paid, I argued that the word "bonus" was misleading because I tend to think of a bonus as "hey, look - we're really profitable, let's pay out a bonus of those profits to the employees."

These PUP (following year amended to PSP) contracts were signed years ago (and amended in 2003) and provided the execs with huge upside potential if they happened to be managing during a period when the AMR stock outperformed their "peer group."

Flawed metrics, to be sure, since once most of the peer group filed for Ch 11, it was a forgone conclusion that AMR stock would "outperform."

But execs cut their pay the week after September 11, 2001, and didn't get raises for several years. So this PUP/PSP compensation was their upside, just like the 35 million options granted to the nonunion employees was their upside.

Nobody has suggested that the rank and file return their profits from the 35 million options to the company.

Suggesting that the execs refuse their PSP payouts now smacks of Paycheck Envy.

Nearly every statement by the unions on these payouts is misleading and contains revisionist history. Almost none of the unions' statements acknowledge the 35 million options or the gift checks of $800 per employee earlier this year. All they say is that workers have received nothing and the greedy execs have received everything.

Everyone sacrificed. Some more than others. And everyone has participated in the upside. The 850 or so PSP execs have participated to a much larger extent than the rank and file. Anyone really surprised at that? Management always makes a lot more money than the rank and file, and this case is no exception.

Is it an unexpected "bonus?" Not really. It's what they were hoping to get in the future when they cut their own pay 6.5 years ago, earlier than their concession demands to the rank and file. And when they went without raises and while they watched greedy management at other companies make several times as much annual compensation.

Of course, the current displays of paycheck envy helps distract the union members from placing blame where it squarely belongs: On the three worthless impotent unions that permitted such disparity in potential rewards. IMO, it wasn't management's job to make certain the unions negotiated sufficient upside for their members. All three unions failed miserably in that mission. The concession paycuts were a given. Every airline was gonna have to slash pay and there isn't anything a union can do when an entire industry is bleeding cash. But the unions could have held out for more like 50% of the equity or 75% of the equity of AMR (instead of the measly 19% they received) in exchange for $8.1 billion of concessions. In January, 2007, the market cap of AMR hit $8 billion; in Spring of 2003, it had been a mere $300 million.

As I remember, all the unions were aware of the PUP payments back during the giveback nogtiations. They just turned a blind eye to them and have only complained when they actually happened. So whose fault is that?

 

[FWAAA]

As I remember, all the unions were aware of the PUP payments back during the giveback nogtiations. They just turned a blind eye to them and have only complained when they actually happened. So whose fault is that?

I agree, and I blame the three union leaders for wasting energy crying and whining about the relatively small dollars management tried to hide in the SERPs (wasn't it less than $40 million?) instead of focussing on the BIG PICTURE, and that was "how do we guarantee that we share in the largesse if this forced concession scheme actually results in a never bankrupt AA?"

Management should have been forthright with the unions about the SERP funding, to be suce. At the time, I posted that in my opinion, the 10-K filing delay request filed by AA was tantamount to fraud. But once the 10-K was filed, all we heard about was anger over those relatively small dollars. When you're distracted by what doesn't matter, you might forget to focus on what does matter.

Well, here we are, five years later and AA didn't file for Ch 11. It's funded the huge pilot pension (and everyone else's rather modest pensions). And it's paying out the money (in stock) expected by the greedy execs.

And it's happening all over again. Instead of looking at how to get a variable comp scheme enacted for the benefit of the FAs, the new APFA President is wasting time on the current program of demanding that management (and now the Board of Directors) resign becuase she and others can't see past their paycheck envy.

FAs (and other unionized employees) are doomed to suffer low pay as long as their leaders focus almost exclusively on the pay of management instead of actually negotiating to get more for their own members. Management is still laughing at their "Career Decision Day" letter. It's easy to oppress when your competiton is comprised of ameteurs.

 

[AMFAMAN]

As I remember, all the unions were aware of the PUP payments back during the giveback nogtiations. They just turned a blind eye to them and have only complained when they actually happened. So whose fault is that?

The unions, as in the union leaders at the top might have known about the bonuses, but I doubt any of the union members knew about the bonuses. I certainly was never made aware of this prior to voting against my concessions. <_<

 

[Joe Patroni]

The unions, as in the union leaders at the top might have known about the bonuses, but I doubt any of the union members knew about the bonuses. I certainly was never made aware of this prior to voting against my concessions. <_<

I remember talk about them back then, but nobady cared.

 

[Winglet]

Arpey and crew COULD CARE LESS what you think or what his customers think. He's probably laughing at the FAs indignation right now.

 

[Skymess]

As I remember, all the unions were aware of the PUP payments back during the giveback nogtiations. They just turned a blind eye to them and have only complained when they actually happened. So whose fault is that?

That was my point. I can't get myself fired up about something the union knew about and something they have in a contract or have made an agreement on.

My beef is that I was forced to give up money that I would have loaned if I knew I was getting it back. I want it back.