Hopeful
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AA still will not bargain in good faith
- Thread starter Hopeful
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AA may not be bargaining in good faith, but how does an article about a special item gain (the sale of American Beacon), which caused AMR to be the only airline to show a net profit, support an assertion that AMR is not bargaining in good faith?
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DallasConehead
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It is unrealistic to think they ever will bargain in good faith. They never have and they never will. Anyone that thinks that because the company earns money that execs will all of a sudden act like good stewards of this company needs to share whatever it is they're smokin. As everyone knows, they are greedy execs that only care about themselves, no concern for employees, passengers, and at this point even stockholders. So, it is best to expect the worst from both the Union and the Company, nothing in the last 23 years of my employment here would cause me to think any differently.
I read the news as a net loss of $360 million, or $4 million a day. Oh, yeah, and AMR burned some furniture (sale of Beacon) which caused a one-time gain of over $400 million. You see good times ahead (due to furniture burning and a very recent decline in oil prices to Katrina-like levels) and I see AMR posting results that are much worse than DL, NW or CO. Only UA and US performed more poorly.
DL and NW would have posted a profit except for paper (noncash) writedowns of their oil hedges.
Hopeful
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chris perry
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AMR is never going to neg in good faith,never have never will.The workers have lost all faith in the integrity of management.The average employee has taken a 25 to 28% pay cuts, families have been destroyed.Employee's have been laid of transfered to other states when they show up,they are told we made a mistake go back.Sometimes 1000's of miles from home.with no pay or compensation.So when they say shared sac we just laugh now we know its a scam.One things for sure it gonna be bonus time for management!!!! fuel prices are falling like a rock!!!!
A sign of good faith would be using some of their cash to leverage fuel hedges in the current enviroment against future trends.
T. Boone Pickens was on Imus last week predicting that this time next year, we'll be looking at +$100.00 bbl oil: given his business, his record and his committment to alternative fuels; I'll trust TBP before I trust AMR.
Buy the hedges with appropriate downside limits.
T. Boone Pickens was on Imus last week predicting that this time next year, we'll be looking at +$100.00 bbl oil: given his business, his record and his committment to alternative fuels; I'll trust TBP before I trust AMR.
Buy the hedges with appropriate downside limits.
FrequentFlierCA
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I also think AA should probably start doing some hedging right now. Not necessarily because of OPEC; as FWAAA correctly said (in another thread), its ability to pin prices in a specific range is very limited.
The hedges should be used now to fulfill their true purpose: stabilize the price that AA pays for fuel over long periods.
As for the Beacon sale, that was a one-time deal. It's great that it pushed AA into the black for the quarter, but next time AMR is going to have to stand on AA's performance alone, unless it chooses to burn more furniture. As we saw, that performance/revenue picture was not good.
The hedges should be used now to fulfill their true purpose: stabilize the price that AA pays for fuel over long periods.
As for the Beacon sale, that was a one-time deal. It's great that it pushed AA into the black for the quarter, but next time AMR is going to have to stand on AA's performance alone, unless it chooses to burn more furniture. As we saw, that performance/revenue picture was not good.
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DallasConehead
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Just like a good management person,, spin the thread to something other then the reason for the thread ie, mgt STILL will not bargain in good faith.
As a factual matter (and legally, as well), AA has been bargaining in good faith. Read the court decisions that define "bargaining in good faith" and then get back to us with some concrete examples - any evidence at all - that AA is failing to abide by its legally required duty to bargain in good faith.
Didn't AA provide the worthless union with a proposal containing two annual payments? Granted, the proposal probably contained further concessions in the form of efficiency gains and productivity improvements in exchange for the payments.
The OP, apparently so anxious to proclaim that AA was refusing to bargain in good faith, grabbed a news article about AA's quarterly net profit and implied that since AA was now profitable, its refusal to offer a pay raise (with no concessions) was proof of a lack of good faith. AA has lost over half a billion so far this year from flying but showed a net profit last quarter on the gain from a sale of assets.
Does anyone have any citation supporting the proposition that refusing to raise wages and share profits (even if those profits were from one-time asset sales) is evidence of a refusal to bargain in good faith when the employer is showing operating losses? The OP didn't bring any and so far, nobody else in this thread has stepped up with any.
Didn't AA provide the worthless union with a proposal containing two annual payments? Granted, the proposal probably contained further concessions in the form of efficiency gains and productivity improvements in exchange for the payments.
The OP, apparently so anxious to proclaim that AA was refusing to bargain in good faith, grabbed a news article about AA's quarterly net profit and implied that since AA was now profitable, its refusal to offer a pay raise (with no concessions) was proof of a lack of good faith. AA has lost over half a billion so far this year from flying but showed a net profit last quarter on the gain from a sale of assets.
Does anyone have any citation supporting the proposition that refusing to raise wages and share profits (even if those profits were from one-time asset sales) is evidence of a refusal to bargain in good faith when the employer is showing operating losses? The OP didn't bring any and so far, nobody else in this thread has stepped up with any.
Don't get all worked up. AA is conducting a classical contract campaign. Read Confessions of a Union Buster, and Flying the Line. Every day that labor works for less pay, it more money in the execs personal bank accounts. The union will soldier on, bargain in good faith on their side, then finally when the mediator can't possibly ignore any longer that the company is deliberately stalling, there will be an impasse declared. Maybe just prior to that, the company will spring some new chaff out there to further obfuscate the issue. So far the company has done exactly what everyone expected.
AA wants a bankruptcy caliber contract, only without the bankruptcy. They're not going to get one. The pilots are going to get a big part of their compensation restored. They're not asking for a "raise." In real dollars, pilots are earning about HALF what they used to before the era of hundreds of millions of dollars of executive bonuses. Like executive bonuses, costs are going up, not down.
There's an old saying I learned in my business classes in university . . . . Companies that have bad labor relations have bad management.
AA wants a bankruptcy caliber contract, only without the bankruptcy. They're not going to get one. The pilots are going to get a big part of their compensation restored. They're not asking for a "raise." In real dollars, pilots are earning about HALF what they used to before the era of hundreds of millions of dollars of executive bonuses. Like executive bonuses, costs are going up, not down.
There's an old saying I learned in my business classes in university . . . . Companies that have bad labor relations have bad management.
eolesen
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Winglet... In case you missed checking your 401K balance over the past two months, we're pretty much in a recession (if not a depression). Businesses are folding for being unable to get credit, banks are holding onto their cash, and the crisis is even starting to hurt China and India, who just a year ago had virtually unstoppable growth economies.
Even the Obamessiah won't be able to part the seas and reverse the effects that the economic downturn will have on leisure and business travel.
And that means lower revenues for AA and the rest of the legacies, and a snowball's chance in San Juan of ever seeing the raises Cap'n Lloyd and his jolly band of Allied Pirates are seeking...
Even the Obamessiah won't be able to part the seas and reverse the effects that the economic downturn will have on leisure and business travel.
And that means lower revenues for AA and the rest of the legacies, and a snowball's chance in San Juan of ever seeing the raises Cap'n Lloyd and his jolly band of Allied Pirates are seeking...
If they want a regression to a BK contract, then let them quit wasting time and just go ahead and declare a impasse with the APA and force a strike so they can get their wish.
If the country is that bad off, then maybe one less airline wouldn't hurt the economy.
I guess name-calling the professional pilots of AA "Pirates" is the best you can do. Make sure the next time you fly on AA that you pop your head in the cockpit and tell the Capt and FO you think their overpaid "Pirates." They'll really like it.
And speaking of which, which group is responsible for the looting of the US economy? . . . the workers of this country, or the corporate elites who cooked up these super-risky investment schemes, lined their pockets with cash, then drove their companies and our country off the cliff? . . . . while they pop their golden parachutes and float down to Caribbean islands and safe offshore bank accounts.
If the country is that bad off, then maybe one less airline wouldn't hurt the economy.
I guess name-calling the professional pilots of AA "Pirates" is the best you can do. Make sure the next time you fly on AA that you pop your head in the cockpit and tell the Capt and FO you think their overpaid "Pirates." They'll really like it.
And speaking of which, which group is responsible for the looting of the US economy? . . . the workers of this country, or the corporate elites who cooked up these super-risky investment schemes, lined their pockets with cash, then drove their companies and our country off the cliff? . . . . while they pop their golden parachutes and float down to Caribbean islands and safe offshore bank accounts.
