AA, why can''t we do the same?

sastal

Member
Sep 2, 2002
84
0
Greetings,

I can't say that I have been following the AA negotiations closely, but, at first glance, employees there seem to have their unions solving problems rather than fussing about them. Why can't we do the same or why couldn't we have done the same? It seems as though AA is steering clear of bankruptcy, at least thus far, thanks to the joint effort of its workforce. Are we or were we simply in worse financial shape to do or to have done the same, or do we have a more deep-seated problem here? I am not asking for a critique of this topic, just answers. I look forward to hearing from you.

Cheers,
 

737nCH11

Senior
Mar 4, 2003
395
0
I think our problem was that the company was in limbo for an entire year while Jack Creighton was CEO. Although we can never be certain, I would be willing to wager that if Tilton had come on the property even six months sooner we could have avoided a CH11 filing altogether.
 

Winglet

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,377
15
www.usaviation.com
Don''t kid yourself. That TA is a piece of crap. After getting these HUGE concessions (2500 more furloughs + 23% pay cut off a contract that was ALREADY 30% below industry standard), Don is going to come back, a la U''s Siegle, and want to decapitate the A fund and eliminate the B fund. I still think Don intends on taking the company into BK and make it look like the unions'' fault. The American management team has proven totally incompetent again and again. Their ONLY plan is to have the employees working for crap.
 

WXGuesser

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Aug 20, 2002
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On 3/31/2003 7:17:29 PM sastal wrote:

Greetings,

I can''t say that I have been following the AA negotiations closely, but, at first glance, they seem to have their unions solving problems rather than fussing about them. Why can''t we do or couldn''t have done the same? It seems as though AA is steering clear of bankruptcy, at least thus far, thanks to the joint effort of its workforce. Are/were we just in a worse financial shape than they or do we have a more deep-seated problem here? I am not asking for a critique of this topic, just answers. I look forward to hearing from you.

Cheers,

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No, IMHO, our union leadership (I''m an AA furloughee... my apologies for posting over here if it offends anyone) took a look at the beating that the folks at USAIR and UAL took, and decided to offer the rank and file the opportunity to choose their future. Take the concessions themselves or get the concessions wrenched from them by a judge. Now we get to see the real fireworks... watch the rank-and-file fight over whether ''tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of having to tighten our belts, or to take up arms against our sea of troubles and by thus opposing them, possibly send the company into that undiscovered country from whose bourne no traveler returns.

Sorry for waxing all Shakespearian on you there... just the way I see it.

TANSTAAFL
 

WXGuesser

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
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On 3/31/2003 10:14:19 PM Winglet wrote:

Don''t kid yourself. That TA is a piece of crap. After getting these HUGE concessions (2500 more furloughs + 23% pay cut off a contract that was ALREADY 30% below industry standard), Don is going to come back, a la U''s Siegle, and want to decapitate the A fund and eliminate the B fund. I still think Don intends on taking the company into BK and make it look like the unions'' fault. The American management team has proven totally incompetent again and again. Their ONLY plan is to have the employees working for crap.

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With all due respect, working for crap is what people will be doing who end up on the outside looking in. Trust me I know; I had to take a job outside my field after being furloughed by AA the end of Sept. 2001. I''m making 40% less than what I was at AA.

Ask all the U and USAir folks who got tossed if they would rather be back working for what the folks at their respective companies are making now. Perhaps a few were lucky enough to get something better.

People seem to keep forgetting that even with these cuts, most airline jobs will still pay pretty good money. If you are making more than $40,000 a year, you are doing better than the majority of HOUSEHOLDS in the U.S. You are still going to get quality people, because it is such good money and bennies.

Does it suck that things are going to get cut? Sure it does! Do I think most of the major airlines will end up in bankruptcy? Sure! But there isn''t a darn thing that the unions or the employees can do to prevent management from taking whatever it wants. Striking will solve nothing at this point, because not every union at every airline will go along with it. So what option do we have other than BOHICA?

TANSTAAFL
 

iflyjetz

Senior
Oct 2, 2002
422
0
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On 3/31/2003 9:51:42 PM WXGuesser wrote:

(I''m an AA furloughee... my apologies for posting over here if it offends anyone)
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WXGuesser, I''ve read your posts. Your view is welcome here.

Tailwinds.
 

spacewaitress

Senior
Aug 27, 2002
468
0
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On 3/31/2003 7:17:29 PM sastal wrote:

...I am not asking for a critique of this topic, just answers. I look forward to hearing from you.

Cheers,

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This may not be the answer you want, Sastal, but information that you may be interested in nonetheless...stay tuned!

BTW, you can view the AFA proposal and the company's counter at www.unitedafa.com

---------------------------------------
American Airlines Agreement Summary

RESTRUCTURING PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT

---------------------------------------

(From Sherry Meehlis, AFA C9 President)
"Ladies and Gentlemen:
We have just received a summary of the recently negotiated tentative agreement between American Airlines and it’s Flight Attendants."


· Pay rates reduced by 15.6%, effective 5/1/03
*No 1/1/04 increase
*1.5% increase 5/1/05, 5/1/06, 5/1/07, 5/1/08



· Premium rates reduced 50% (purser, language, galley)

· Understaffing pay reduced 50%

· No holiday pay

· No narrowbody lead pay

· No longevity pay

· No reserve override

· No night pay

· EPT's up to 12 hours unpaid versus current 8 hours unpaid

· Language pay applies to language speakers on language of destination only

· Incentive pay for all hours in excess of 69 versus 67

· Per diem reduced to $1.50 Domestic/$1.75 International

· Reduction in uniform points from 18-12 (No carry over of points)

· Vacation reduced by 33%
*Vacation allowance as follows:
1+ years = 9 days
5+ years = 14 days
12+ years = 19 days
20 + years = 23 days
25 + years = 28 days

· Elimination of the pre-vacation "48"

· Trip selection maximum increased to 77 Domestic/82 International

(Pure bids to 82 Domestic/87 International; Make-up to 85 Domestic/90 International)

· Layover rest minimums changed to FAA minimum

· Monthly guarantee reduced to 70 hours Domestic/International

· Flight attendants paid "actual" flying time versus greater of actual/scheduled flying time on leg by leg basis, however, guarantee to remain in tact

· Deadhead at 100% pay/50% credit versus 100% pay/credit

· Last trip of the month pay protection changed to last 5 days of the month versus last 7 days

· Reassignment protection changed to last 5 days of the month versus last 7 days

· Eliminate benefits for overage leaves
(Flight Attendants on overage leaves will continue to accrue bidding seniority and be eligible for pass benefits)

· Eliminate furlough pay

· Reduce sick accrual to 3 hours per month; eliminate rapid reaccrual

· Minimum annual threshold
(420 paid hours necessary to receive VC/SK accrual. Must maintain 420 hours in rolling 12 month look back period to receive medical/dental benefits at full time employee rate)

· Eliminate crew meals (Domestic/International)

· Eliminate Part-Time flying

· Profit sharing of up to 15% of eligible pay if threshold met

· Stock options (Labor to receive 24.3% of total AMR outstanding shares)
*APFA to receive 17.9% of 37,880,000 shares

· Company agrees to satellite base test

· Agreement becomes amendable 4/30/09

· Complete language will be posted as soon as it becomes available

· Subject to ratification by the APFA membership
 
OP
S

sastal

Member
Sep 2, 2002
84
0
This looks nasty, including the changes in crew meal provisions. It seems that the winds of change at the AA forum have moved in and the debates are heating up. Expect a bumpy ride in the next two weeks.

Cheers,
 

MiAAmi

Veteran
Aug 21, 2002
1,490
0
www.usaviation.com
Its funny how "crew meals" are such an issue. Ask anyone who works 9-5 if they expect to be fed at work. Is "crew meals" a reason to take the airline into BK court???? Some people need to get a grip.
 

AOA

Member
Apr 4, 2003
22
0
When you have no time between flights to eat (which is very often the case) those crew meals mean a hell of a lot, especially during 12 hour duty days. You 9-5 types can run over to MacDonald's.
 

GraftedOne

Member
Dec 11, 2002
31
0
You can''t just step out to the nearest Micky Dee''s when you are half way across the Pacific on your way to NRT. 13 hr. flight. I guess I could always take an ice chest like I did at the commuter. Ha!
 

FWAAA

Veteran
Jan 5, 2003
10,251
3,900
If FAs have enough time to screw around selling $5 cocktails in Y on international flights (most major airlines think they do), then they can certainly begin selling food to pax AND TO THE CREW. Not all that many employees in this world get no-cost meals provided by their employer (unless they work in a restaurant or oil rig).

Besides - who likes airline food anyway??
 
Aug 20, 2002
664
50
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On 4/4/2003 1:22:21 PM Wild Onion wrote:

One time, I made a sandwich and took it with me to work.

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