AAA ALPA Thread 9-21 to 9-27

[skyflyr69]

Just look at Airtran pilots voting down their new proposal. 160.00 bucks for a CO. Glad to see a group that cares. Easties will never vote for an agreement unless certain conditions are met.

USAPA opening the door and just not knocking!

 

[flyboeing737]

Somebodys been to happy hour a little to long with Parker!!

Sorry no umbrella in my glass!

 

[Cactus737]

According to the DCA Reps, "We would need protections of longevity for our once furloughed pilots, fences to capture the attrition we brought to the list, and protections in the event of any new merger or transactions. The America West pilots and their MEC will have to understand our resolve on those issues."

Let's see - the East wants all of the upgrades and growth, and none of the furloughs (including for guys who were on furlough until just a few months ago), yet claims that the West is being unreasonable.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,

AWA320 said: 'It's going to go with the fences provided under the award and no more! We are not about to go tinkering with that award. The east spoke already thru the wilson poll and gave the number they were looking at it was roughly $165/hr for narrow body."

USA320Pilot comments: At least you have finally hinted that there are negotiations going on for a settlement. Too bad the AWA MEC is hiding this fact from their members.

There is nothing being hidden from our membership and the settlement you speak of is with the company. I know you like a conspiricy but none here my man sorry!!

As the DCA Reps. indicated, e"ven though the Nicolau Award has been passed to the company it CANNOT BE IMPLEMENTED until there is a ratified single agreement. And there will be no agreement with the Nicholau award intact."

Bob and Don said that huh?? Well I seriously doubt that their pilots would approve of that move with 165/hr on the table.

According to the DCA Reps, "We would need protections of longevity for our once furloughed pilots, fences to capture the attrition we brought to the list, and protections in the event of any new merger or transactions. The America West pilots and their MEC will have to understand our resolve on those issues."

We understand and we don't care. You Bob, Don, Eric, Mark King, Kim Snyder, Jack and everybody else needs to grasp the fact that binding means binding!! You didn't bring a thing to this dance but bad attitudes and that ever sense of entitlement. So lets all settle in for the long haul. I'll take my crappy contract which BTW it bettr than yours and you can live with LOA 93 for several more yrs. In the mean time let the whipsaw action begin. You guys paint yourselves into a box and blame everyone but yourselves.

Here is the deal. Either negotiate a "realistic solution" per the Rice Committee or face USAPA uncertainty in the very near future when the NMB orders an election.

We'll take door number three Jim, law suits, bankruptcy and divided pilot group on every issue for $800! "DING DING DING" THE DAILY DOUBLE. Tell'em what they won, well Jim for being total rearends and not honoring their agreements they get years of pilot disharmony. That's right Jim it's EAL CAL part two!!

Bottom line we've moved as far as we are going to partner so you take your best shot!!!
Regards,

USA320Pilot

Frats brother...

 

[aquagreen73s]

What would the East pilots loose by voting it down in your world? Three or Four months? Would not the Rice committee sweeten the pot to 8-10 year fences or 13-15 year fences?

It's not a one way street. Are you sure you're not an East pilot? Anyway, if it went like you hope it would, that is if it went where the West continues to give give give and the East continues to get get get, then it's a no brainer for AWA to vote the TA down. Now, since the East would be stuck at the bottom of the bottom for payrates and the things that matter in life, then that is what they would continue to live with in exchange for avoiding Nicolau. If Nicolau is that bad (which is a silly notion but in the spirit of debate let's just suppose for whatever reason that it is that bad), then in that case I guess you're right to say they have nothing to lose because it can only get worse by voting for a TA. If they chose to vote no, then that's their choice. We on the West could live with that. What we can't live with are those who think they can weasel out of an obligation just because they think they're above the law. Believe me, that is not tolerable.

 

[prechilill]

Let's see - the East wants all of the upgrades and growth, and none of the furloughs (including for guys who were on furlough until just a few months ago), yet claims that the West is being unreasonable.

throw in they never missed a paycheck and not one more of their pilots ever got furloughed after AWA stepped up to the plate and bought them. They all had a bump in their relative seniority and if furloughs do happen they will come out of both camps, east and west. The east got a good deal out of all this. But when you are so bitter in life it is hard to see anything otherwise. Fortunately, the vocal half dozen or so roosters crowing incessantly about a fictitious union and imagined injustices are real minorities in their own pilot group. We never will even see a USAPA vote- they have no money and as each day passes their opportunity for a new union fades a little more. The USAPA fantasy will never meet reality because in the end the majority of east pilots are reasonable, upstanding professionals.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Fortunately, the vocal half dozen or so roosters crowing incessantly about a fictitious union and imagined injustices are real minorities in their own pilot group. We never will even see a USAPA vote- they have no money and as each day passes their opportunity for a new union fades a little more. The USAPA fantasy will never meet reality because in the end the majority of east pilots are reasonable, upstanding professionals.

prechilill,

Has the dry heat baked your small brain to nothing? USAPA has over 2400 cards and growing every day. You need to wake up. You are about to have new representation by USAPA and it will be an agency shop.

You can pay USAPA now or latter but you will pay

Bye Bye ALPA

 

[700UW]

Actually they dont have to pay a dime, the NMB has not ruled the pilots as a single bargaining unit, therefore you will be voting on your own and still standing alone while the West makes more than you in pay.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

AAA into receivership

ALPA national passes a contract without East ratification.

We are proud of you Potato Chip.

Watch how many cards come in if they try that. It'll get so many guys off their arses that ALPA would be history not only here, but at other carriers as well. The law suits would be never ending. They wouldn't be able to combine operations for DECADES, or until the new union is established. It's become increasingly obvious to me that ALPA had an agenda here, namely to neutralize US east seniority for upcoming mergers. Someone should investigate what kind of input ALPA had into the arbitration and present it in the lawsuit which is still pending. Maybe a good first job for the new union leadership.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

It's become increasingly obvious to me that ALPA had an agenda here, namely to neutralize US east seniority for upcoming mergers. Someone should investigate what kind of input ALPA had into the arbitration and present it in the lawsuit which is still pending. Maybe a good first job for the new union leadership.

You will not find anything in public as to what ALPA input took place.

There are alternatives. The bottom line is ALPA needs to go, first and foremost.

 

[ClueByFour]

Here is the deal. Either negotiate a "realistic solution" per the Rice Committee or face USAPA uncertainty in the very near future when the NMB orders an election.

"face USAPA uncertainty." Let's examine what that means.

1. I have looked and have been unable to see that the NMB has declared SBU status on the US East/West pilot groups. As such, if the NMB orders an election before that happens, the East pilots will be voting on their own representation, and nothing more.

2. Even if the NMB finds a SBU, it's questionable whether or not USAPA even has the cards--as evidenced by the fact that they are quite publicly stating they need "x" more (where X is 150, 300, etc). And, they will lose a ton of furlough cards in mere weeks, not to mention the fact that once the furloughed guys are off the list they cannot vote in the election, if one is called.

3. There is no guarantee that USAPA wins an election.

4. Even if USAPA does win an election, it inherits all contracts, LOAs, and agreements with the company. This includes the transition agreement, which dictates how seniority integration is to be handled. It says "ALPA Merger Policy."

5. In order to change the outcome of Nicolau, USAPA needs to get the company to agree to alter the Transition Agreement. It also requires that the West guys ratify a single contract. Independently. I don't see the West guys doing that if USAPA tries a cramdown. I would imagine that the NMB might also have something to ponder here in terms of whether or not they see a SBU when it's clear why the pickleballers are doing what they are doing.

Now, with that in mind, what exactly is your blustering about "uncertainty" supposed to mean? You have no leverage over the west in terms of seniority integration and switching unions won't solve that problem.

"Face union imposition." It's like a yuck a minute. The west leadership, like them or leave them, is so much more effective than the east leadership (or the crazed lifetime FOs leading the USAPA drive) that it defies logic. The time to talk about "realistic solutions" was before you took them to arbitration.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Actually they dont have to pay a dime, the NMB has not ruled the pilots as a single bargaining unit, therefore you will be voting on your own and still standing alone while the West makes more than you in pay.

700UW

True but you are missing something are you not?

You forgot the most important word YET

"Actually they don't have to pay a dime" YET

After the election of USAPA, East and West will pay dues.

 

[767jetz]

Watch how many cards come in if they try that. It'll get so many guys off their arses that ALPA would be history not only here, but at other carriers as well.

Sorry, but nobody is buying that line. The East MEC has already refused to sit at the table, and the EC already said they will sit in on their behalf. So effectively it has already happened. It is now inevitable. So knowing this, why aren't the cards flooding in?? The truth is that those who haven't sent in a card yet most likely won't, and are probably more pissed at the East MEC than National at this point. So yes, I'm sure the cards will still trickle in. But this flood of cards you hope for will not happen.

 

[767jetz]

And, there will be even more news Monday night, which you will be surprised about again.

OK. It's Tuesday afternoon. Did I miss something??? Did you mean next Monday? Or a particular Monday next year? Or some other future Monday? :huh:

The only thing that surprises me is that you actually think that others believe what you say.

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways ALPA MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE - September 24, 2007

This is Richard Obermeyer with a US Airways MEC update for Monday, September 24th, with three new items.


Item 1. MEC Chairman Jack Stephan has called a special MEC meeting that will commence at 2 p.m. tomorrow, Tuesday, September 25th and will adjourn Wednesday, September 26th at 5 p.m. or the completion of business.

The agenda for the meeting is as follows:

1. Continuation of discussion of Agenda Item #1 from MEC Conference Call Meeting, Friday, September 21st, “Update and discussion of the Executive Council agenda items concerning the US Airways MEC.â€

2. Review of strategy and direction for all pertinent MEC Committees regarding seniority, contract negotiations and demands for parity.

3. Briefing by the MEC’s outside Legal Counsel and review of future tasks for outside Legal Counsel.

4. Review of the MEC’s position and strategy regarding the Company’s obtaining a Single FAA Operating Certificate.

5. Review of Strike Prep and Communication Plans and consideration of communications regarding the current status of JNC Negotiations.

6. Report of the Secretary Treasurer.

7. Consideration of Grievance and System Board Schedule for the remainder of 2007.

The meeting will be held in Bedford, New Hampshire at The Wayfarer Inn located at 121 South River Road. The phone number is 603-622-3766.

Item 2. Pilots have been asking if training is required for the Thursday, September 27th, pay parity/No B-scale picketing event at Washington National Airport. Training is not required for this event. All pilots, trained or untrained, are welcome. You are asked to wear your hat and jacket. Picketing will be held from 11:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. A flyer with all the details, including the assembly point and time, has been posted on the pilots’ only website under What's New and has also been emailed to all pilots.

Every US Airways East pilot on this property knows that our sacrifices saved this airline. Help us tell our story to the media about why we deserve equal pay for equal work. It’s past time to eradicate the B-scale that we’ve been living under while others gain at our expense.

Item 3. On the September 21st code a phone recording, the item on SAP had an error. The paragraph referring to how LOA 93 negatively impacted and modified one element of SAP should say: "That change consists of the following: 'The SAP floor will remain 15 hours below the applicable pay cap. For example, a pay cap increase to 95:00 will cause the SAP floor to increase to 80:00. The SAP floor for pilots on the 75-Hour Option shall be 60:00.'"

News you can use:

W.A.R. Item 917

FOM

Warning: Do not attempt to land from an unstabilized approach. The decision to go around is not an indication of poor performance, but rather good judgment.

Educate to Vacate

Below is a link to a video recording of a PHX pilot meeting with Parker on February 6, 2007. This video is posted on both the AWA and AAA Pilot’s company web sites as is all the other meetings that Parker held with employees. Parker's consistent message which has never changed, was that AWA would be in bankruptcy and would have down sized and taken pay cuts absent the merger with US Airways and that the merger was mutually beneficial for both companies.

www.safisoft.com/parker/default.htm

Equal pay for Equal Work:

It has been 24 days since September 1, 2007, the start of retro active pay.
Money to be paid to each Group 2 Captain is $1293
Money to be paid to each Group 2 First Officer is $635
Pilots on all other aircraft will receive the same percentage increase as Group 2 Pilots (approximately 15%).

Follow the three-prong approach, fly safe and thanks for listening.