Abortion: Which Side Is Fabricating?

[Freedom4all]

I do not consider population restriction the same as genocide. But it's a free world and you can believe what you want.

Perhaps we have different definitions of life changing.

Ok Garf, amuse us. In your population control world, what is the determination on who lives and who doesnt?

Who would be administering the Ministry of Population Restriction? ie: The Government?

Would be be based upon ones value to Society as a whole?

Do you agree that to provide a high quality of life for all, there must be fewer people?

Should we include forcing single women to abort their babies or put them up for adoption?

Implant sterilizing capsules in people when they reach puberty?

Spike water reserves and staple foods with a chemical that would make people sterile?

Should we formulate a "world government scheme" they call the Planetary Regime, which would administer the world's resources and human growth? So they can discuss the development of an "armed international organization, a global analogue of a police force" to which nations would surrender part of their sovereignty?

Do you agree with the philosophies of our new Science Czar, John Holdren?

 

[Freedom4all]

freedoms are not absolute. I support the right of free speech but as the old adage gos, you still cannot cry fire in a crowded room.

Sure you can Garf, and no one will stop you. Heck you can even do it running around naked. However just like in life, there may be consequences for that decision. Theres this profound thing called poor vs wise choices. You make poor choices then it will affect your outcome. Its rather easy if you think about it.

At the same time i should no bear the burden for someone else's poor life decisions.

 

[Garfield1966]

OK, I see where the confusion is. I am not talking about knocking off people already living. I am talking about birth control. Each person can have one child. If someone wants to have more than one child there would be penalties involved whether they be financial or what ever is up to the people. I am talking about preventing births not executions of people already living.

Yelling fire in a crowd is against the law. Freedom of speech is absolute. There are laws that restrict all freedoms. I am not allowed to slander someone, have a claymore in my yard for self defense, extort money from someone ... etc.

To say that you can yell fire in a crowd is to say you can murder someone. You CAN do either, you are not ALLOWED by law to do either.

When it comes to the point of over population yes I would support radical measures to preserve our species. I prefer that we do it as opposed to nature. If nature does it, the result will be indiscriminate and massive. I do not think this will happen like flipping a switch. It will be a gradual process and hopefully people are given an incentive to limit population growth rather than being forced to do it by government or nature.

We are all on one planet. My actions will in some way affect you and vice versa.

 

[Garfield1966]

China yes Germany no.

Birth defects are a separate issue. All I am addressing is population control and how to address it. I prefer that we address it before nature does.

I do not believe I am afraid of freedom or liberty. I am more afraid of people not paying attention to the present and not trying to avoid problems in the future. If you are stuck on an island with only a certain amount of food and do not know when you will be rescued, are you going to eat all your food the first night or are you going to ration it even though you might get rescued the next day?

We know the worlds resources are limited. Sure technology may arise that will give us ample food and water but it has not happened and we have no guarantee that it will. Given current population growth, at some point we will exceed the planets ability to sustain the amount of life that is on it. Either we address the potential problem now or we let nature do it on it's own tome schedule.

This is not a dictatorship. There is no need to armed forces to enforce any doctrine. There are plenty of incentives that could be offered to limit population growth. If those incentives fail, then drastic measures may have to be taken or the human race may become extinct. I do not know what the future holds and I am pretty sure I won't live long enough to find out. Although in 40 years we may have close to 9 billion people on the plant (we have a little under 7 billion now) so in 40 years, our population will increase nearly 50%. One estimate I saw puts the population at over 11 billion. That is what scares me.

 

[Garfield1966]

OK, I have a question.

Back in the dark ages, sanitation and hygiene were horrendous. Would the King of England telling his subjects that you must bath with water and soap every day and you must dispose of all waste in a clean manner or you will suffer a plague be considered an invasion of their privacy? I guess on the surface yes it would. According to the COTUS that would be covered under the general welfare would it not? Do these actions or you will die. Limit your population or you may all die.

 

[Garfield1966]

And here I thought I was just trying to avoid a population explotion that the planet could not sustain and prevent the human race from potentially being wiped out.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Just curious,do you believe that the planet can continue to sustain the current population trends?

 

[Garfield1966]

If you are saying that nature will balance things out then you do not believe that the planet can sustain the current growth pattern. You have just said exactly what I said would happen. Nature will intervien.

Where we differ is that I would rather have a say in my future, you seem to be willing to leave it up to nature. I have no interest in going down on the Titanic because people are to stupid to see that our current trajectory is not a safe one.

 

[Garfield1966]

I have 2 nieces and I worry about them. I would like to leave the next generation with a better place than I received. I think we al have a responsibility to future generations.

I do not even have kids and I am not religious at all but these seem like basic tenants of any religion. Why else would people have kids. Who ants to look their kids in the eye and say, "OH well, we F'ed up but it's your problem now. I really don't care." I think it's selfish and mean.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

I really don't care." I think it's selfish and mean.

Not having any kids you obviously speak from experience.

 

[Seatacus]

Just curious,do you believe that the planet can continue to sustain the current population trends?

I actually do also. I think the human race here on Earth is quite adaptable. They'll figure somehow how to feed and house everyone.

 

[delldude]

Just curious,do you believe that the planet can continue to sustain the current population trends?

You're forgetting mother nature and natural checks and balances.

Nothing like good pandemic or planetary catastrophe to thin the herd you know.

 

[Seatacus]

I have heard of studies of how many people this planet can sustain. I can't recall who did them but from what I remember we are nowhere close to the limit.

 

[Garfield1966]

Not having any kids you obviously speak from experience.

Not sure what that has to do with the price of tea but given that I do not have children and still care about what happens in the future after I am gone would seem to indicate that having children is not relevant to the point.

 

[Garfield1966]

You're forgetting mother nature and natural checks and balances.

Nothing like good pandemic or planetary catastrophe to thin the herd you know.

No I am not forgetting them. Actually addressed them a few times in my various posts. I would prefer that we deal with it ahead of time rather than let nature take care of it. When nature deals with a problem it does so indiscriminately and harshly.

If the limit is 10 billion, we will exceed that limit in less than 50 years given the current growth trends. There is a good chance that we will double that in 100 or less.

 

[Freedom4all]

Not sure what that has to do with the price of tea but given that I do not have children and still care about what happens in the future after I am gone would seem to indicate that having children is not relevant to the point.

Of course you wouldnt. However having children, changes your perspective and your life. But again you wouldn't know that.