Abortion: Which Side Is Fabricating?

[Freedom4all]

Responsibility is a side issue.

Nice justification there puddy tat. Personal responsibility means everything. Except if your talking about that hopey-dopey-changey philosophy.

Your are asking what happened to it. Who cares? Do you think if the tax payer stops paying for abortions that women will think twice about having unprotected sex?

No it means your actions have consequences...what a concept eh?

All I am saying is that given the reality that we live in you can pay for the abortion now or the cost of raising the kid later. If you want to base it purely on cost, I think it's cheaper to pay for the abortion. A few hundred bucks and it's over. If you want to bring morality in on it then you have to pay for prenatal care, child birth, food, clothing, child care, education at least through 12th grade.

Wroooooooooooooooooong again! We should not have to pay for people who suck off the system via welfare. You have the kid, you provide for the kid, plain and simple. What you are saying only furthers people to do nothing for themselves and suck off the government. Government resources that could better put towards things off value. Infrastructure, defense, natural disasters etc.

The it's up to the kid. Assuming the kid is lucky, they actually pay attention in school, get a scholar ship to college and become a productive member of society. If the kid takes the other path, then the costs will increase. Or the costs could fall somewhere in between.

You choose your path in life, one can either be a non contributing lazy slob (which in a free nation you have that right) or you can choose to elevate yourself and excel. Its your call, but there shouldn't be a backstop for you if you choose to skate thru life. You choose your path, plain and simple.

When I started my business, I had nothing. I struggled for 10 years before it payed off and became profitable. Nobody gave me a hand out and I never asked for it either.

So pick you pick... morality or cost? Personally I pick cost.

You pick cost over morality? Thanks for pointing out the obvious. You seemed to have thrown in the towel. I choose not to. People rise under adversity when faced with challenge. If you give them the lazy way out then what price will society pay in the long term?

 

[Garfield1966]

What do you meant 'What". It's a simple equation. Either it's a cost issue. The OP does not want to have tax payer money used for abortions. Fine. Unfortunately in our society we do not let children suffer or the mistakes of their guardians. We as a society will make sure the child has medical care, clothing, food, education and housing.

Like I said, pay a little up front or pay more down line. If we are lucky, the kid will not grow up to be a burden on society. I guess that's the break even point. According to the 'right', a single parent kid will not fair too well.

So yea, in this case, I'm going for the money. I'd rather pay for the abortion. More bang for the buck.

And no, I do not agree with abortions being used as birth control. It's not my body and it's not for me to judge others. I'm just looking to save few bucks.

 

[Garfield1966]

Adults are treated differently than children. We as a society will not let a child suffer (too much). So you can spout platitudes like responsibility but the reality is that people are not. So do you want to make the kids suffer along with the adults? If you don't then you pay for it. If you do then you ge toff cheaper.

There is a lot of stuff we should not have to deal with in our society. Then there is reality.

 

[Freedom4all]

What do you meant 'What". It's a simple equation. Either it's a cost issue. The OP does not want to have tax payer money used for abortions. Fine. Unfortunately in our society we do not let children suffer or the mistakes of their guardians. We as a society will make sure the child has medical care, clothing, food, education and housing.

Like I said, pay a little up front or pay more down line. If we are lucky, the kid will not grow up to be a burden on society. I guess that's the break even point. According to the 'right', a single parent kid will not fair too well.

So yea, in this case, I'm going for the money. I'd rather pay for the abortion. More bang for the buck.

And no, I do not agree with abortions being used as birth control. It's not my body and it's not for me to judge others. I'm just looking to save few bucks.

Awesome justification there puddy tat.
So then what about the old and infirmed?
The (gasp) handicapped?
The people that are mentally unstable ie: crazy?
The others who just dont seem to adhere to the societies cost over moral value?
Should we all just throw them in the ovens? :blink:

sarcasm off <_<

 

[Garfield1966]

Separate issue. You are assuming I view a embryo/fetus the same as I view a person out side the womb.

By the way. Exactly how is a woman who cannot afford a abortion supposed to afford to raise a child in the first place?

 

[Freedom4all]

Adults are treated differently than children. We as a society will not let a child suffer (too much). So you can spout platitudes like responsibility but the reality is that people are not. So do you want to make the kids suffer along with the adults? If you don't then you pay for it. If you do then you ge toff cheaper.

There is a lot of stuff we should not have to deal with in our society. Then there is reality.

And what would be your solution to this "lot of stuff we should not have to deal with in our society"?

The Final Solution perhaps?

 

[Freedom4all]

Separate issue. You are assuming I view a embryo/fetus the same as I view a person out side the womb.

By the way. Exactly how is a woman who cannot afford a abortion supposed to afford to raise a child in the first place?

Its called a JOB. What a novel concept. Then she can choose to either abort it, or raise it on her dime. Thats also called that funny word:

Responsibility​

 

[Garfield1966]

Given my family history you should know how stupid that comment was.

All I said was that there are quite a few things we should not have to deal with in our society. I made no mention of what I thought should be done or even that I think anything can be done. People are people. They screw up, commit crimes (some heinous). Some folks can turn them selves around others cannot.

Like I said. I accept the world the way it is, not the way I would like it. Sure, I think we should continue to try and change things, bit lets wait till the changes actually take place before we consider them as part of reality.

 

[Freedom4all]

Given my family history you should know how stupid that comment was.

All I said was that there are quite a few things we should not have to deal with in our society. I made no mention of what I thought should be done or even that I think anything can be done. People are people. They screw up, commit crimes (some heinous). Some folks can turn them selves around others cannot.

Like I said. I accept the world the way it is, not the way I would like it. Sure, I think we should continue to try and change things, bit lets wait till the changes actually take place before we consider them as part of reality.

So whats that called again? Hope n Change? Hope it changes? Hope? Change?

 

[Garfield1966]

A job.... why did I not think about that.

I think we are arguing this from different POV's

I agree that in a perfect world, people would assume responsibility for their actions. Get knocked up, carry the kid to term and either offer the kid up for adoption or get a job and take care of the kid. I also wish people would get job so they would not steal. I wish people would not take drugs. Don't drink and drive.

The thing is people don't do what we both would like them to do. The woman who cannot afford the abortion is in all likely hood not going to get a job to be able to afford the abortion much less get a job to afford raising the kid. So, since I do not think either of us want government forcing her to give up the child, the tax payer is stuck with the tab. Can't 'force' someone to work.

All I am saying is that given the current world we lie in, it's cheaper to pay for the abortion than to raise the kid. IMO, the mother will not be able/willing to raise the kid in a majority of the situations we are talking about so it's cheaper for the tax payer.

 

[Garfield1966]

Freedom,

This has nothing to do with Obama. This has to do with the reality we live in. People are not responsible. SO until we change that, we have to deal with the results.

Piney,

See above. She did not keep her legs crossed and she cannot afford the abortion. So deal with those facts and not the ideas you would like to have as reality.

No the COTUS does not say it. Are you saying you want the child to suffer due to the indiscretions of the guardian? I do not think they should and since we are not going to let government steal a child from a poor (money) parent, the child stays with the poor mother and we get to help pay for it OR we pay for the cheap abortion and all it a day.

You pick.

 

[Garfield1966]

You seem to be more for this hope/change thing. I do not have a great deal of faith in man kind. I think as a whole we are lazy/narcissistic/arrogant/lazy and pretty much all around useless. I believe people will take the easiest way out of a situation. People know we will not harm children and we will do our best to help them.

Now had either of you mentioned Sex ed in school, free family planning and birth control for all women/girls then may be you are on to something. But I suspect neither of you want to pay for that either.

I do believe that this would reduce the number of abortions dramatically. Bt give that this is NOT the reality we live in and given the proclivity of the right to stick it's head in the sand (in regards to anything related to sex) it is unlikely that this 'reality' will ever come to pass.

So given the current reality we live in, either pay a little up front or more down line.

I say that would be cheaper in the long run to pay for the abortions than paying to raise the kid.

 

[Freedom4all]

You seem to be more for this hope/change thing. I do not have a great deal of faith in man kind. I think as a whole we are lazy/narcissistic/arrogant/lazy and pretty much all around useless. I believe people will take the easiest way out of a situation. People know we will not harm children and we will do our best to help them.

Now had either of you mentioned Sex ed in school, free family planning and birth control for all women/girls then may be you are on to something. But I suspect neither of you want to pay for that either.

I do believe that this would reduce the number of abortions dramatically. Bt give that this is NOT the reality we live in and given the proclivity of the right to stick it's head in the sand (in regards to anything related to sex) it is unlikely that this 'reality' will ever come to pass.

So given the current reality we live in, either pay a little up front or more down line.

I say that would be cheaper in the long run to pay for the abortions than paying to raise the kid.

Or is just your reality is just yours alone? Like i said, throwing towel in submission and say "oh well, why bother" doesn't cut it. :down:

 

[Ed Norton]

All you who rationalize abortion should remember this next time some abortionists is killed.

Genesis 9:6
Whoever sheds the blood of man,

by man shall his blood be shed;

for in the image of God

has God made man.

Call it Karma, what comes around goes around...You can't justify it.
:down: :down:

 

[Dignity]

Yes it is what I meant. If you believe the right, children who grow up in singe parent homes are more likely to be a 'problem'. After all, the break down of the family is the root of most of most of our problems. Right?

Sure, the kid could grow up to the the next Jonas Salk, Einstein, Wright ... or Dahlmer, Manson, Rader.

for the most part people grow up to be your neighbor..outside watering their lawn, while watching their children playing with the dog, waving at you while driving by their house in your car!


These other ideas it may be cheaper to abort the baby because the child might end up in jail is :wacko: !

also,

I really do not want to consider an abortion..the ending of a human life labeled "elective surgery" !!O.M.G

however, that is really what it is!


for the most part there is really not a health issue.. with the mother or the baby.. its just the fact someone doesn't want to assume any responsibility for their actions and then on top of that, would like to send you, the taxpayer,

the bill.

that is ridiculous.

it is ridiculous that anyone would support the idea..thinking its OK for someone else to pay for their medical expenses and their abortion and they have to do nothing other than going to the Doctor and making an appointment to take care of the "problem" the "inconvenience"..the,

"elective surgery"..

an abortion is not a medical issue.. when the life of the mother is not in jeopardy because of health issues with the pregnancy.

if this is what Health Care is supposed to provide...the elective "abortions" and expect the taxpayer to fund that..they need to go back to the drawing board or shelf that idea completely..


because that sucks.