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As far as retirement goes, there has been a slight uptick in the numbers but you will not see a huge change there. The reason is very complex and for the most part money isn't the primary reason that flight attendants chose to retire. I have spoke to several very senior flight attendants and there is a real attachment to the job....wheather it be the lifestyle or simply a social outlet. American Airlines is where their friends are and it is an all consuming way of life. Some don't want to be home 24/7 with their spouse and some don't have anyone at home to talk to. There is a wonderful male flight attendant at JFK who commutes from San Diego and he is 62. We talked about retirement and he has been able to amass nearly $800,000 into his 401k. This along with retirement and social security would lend him very well off. Yet he commutes across the country and flies Buenos Aires....and he loves it! I say all the power to him!

And, I do not have any problem with f/as who work as long as they want--as long as they fly their line and work when they are on the airplane. But, we all know examples of f/as who, if they even get on the airplane, think that their seniority allows them to do as little as possible, and the rest of us pick up the slack. Or, they just bid the best lines, sell them to a trip trader and never fly, period. What do they possibly get out of that?????

I'll be 66 next month. I get my 10 years and will be eligible for retiree travel benefits at the end of January next year. I may or may not retire then. If I am still in good health, AND I still enjoy the job as much as I do now, I will not retire right away. But, I intend to look at it on a month to month basis. If I start thinking in terms of dropping all my trips (or even dropping all but 35 hours) every month, then do me, you and the traveling public a favor. Get us a trip together on the S80 with me as #4. When we get to cruising altitude, open the aft galley door and shove me out. :lol:
 
IMO, as long as discussions are civil, a little off-topic wandering never hurt anyone. After taking a militant stance against off-topic discussions for a couple of years, the owners of this place have moved toward the other end of the spectrum. B)
Give me this "other end of the spectrum" over what we had in the past!
Ok, carry on with the original topic........ 🙄
 
Very little, of course, and I apologize for my part in derailing this topic.

That said, the initial rumours of AA taking a dozen or more 777s from JAL made no sense and the later rumours of AA getting as many as 30 777s still make no sense.

IMO, as long as discussions are civil, a little off-topic wandering never hurt anyone. After taking a militant stance against off-topic discussions for a couple of years, the owners of this place have moved toward the other end of the spectrum. B)
probably because if topics weren't allowed to go off topic, nothing would get discussed since EVERYTHING on here seems to be filtered through a labor discussion, whether it has any relevance to the topic or not.

AA's competitiveness, network composition, and cost structure has far more relevance to whether there will be any orders for new aircraft than whether, say, AA does its overhauls in-house or send them to the "outhouse" 🙂
 
Actually, total attrition was down substantially for 2010. However, the ratio of retirements to total attrition increased a good bit.

<snip>

I was really surprised at how low the total attrition was for 2010. As you said, holding out for a cash retro payment is a definite crap shoot.
The 2009 attrition numbers included furloughs.
 
You won't have to wait much longer for me to post. It is all good news, and in very simple language. I am working on putting this good news together, and will probably have it all ready sometime on January 27. The B777s are coming sooner than the 2 that have been mentioned. That news was simply to offset the news of the 4th quarter loss - pure and simple.


Ok I will def. look for you post on January 27. I really hope you are right!!!!
 
The 2009 attrition numbers included furloughs.

So? All the numbers tell us is the reduction in f/as on the seniority liist--we don't even know if they were active or inactive status. How many were furloughed, died, got fired, or just flat out quit are all lumped together. Is it really necessary to bring up the fact that furloughs are included in the count every single time that attrition is mentioned? We all know it.

Beside that, why shouldn't furloughs be counted in the attrition? Even though, they have recall rights, there is no guarantee that furloughees will ever work for the company again. What I knew when I was furloughed was that my job at AA had been eliminated. The fact that I was recalled was jam on the bread.
 
This has turned into a very interesting and informative thread…. There are a lot of pieces of AA’s strategic issues that are being discussed.
While it is uncomfortable to get to the heart of difficult discussions in any arena, I am quite comfortable that there are a lot of AA people that are beginning to understand the real issues facing AA and want to know the truth, regardless of whether it is painful or not.
The strength of this forum is that they don’t shut off the discussion just because someone says something that someone else doesn’t want to hear. As long as the discussion is civil, it should go on.
I appreciate the information about AA FA attrition. The details may not be all in agreement but I think the attrition info does support my contention that AA’s labor costs are high not because AA people are making so much money (I have argued AA people are paid comparable to others) but because productivity at AA is below par and AA is stagnant – not growing fast enough to avoid the natural growth in wages that occurs unless a carrier is growing.
However, UA reported its 4th quarter results (which now include CO) today and the numbers do provide some insight into our discussion here.
First, UA’s RASM growth was similar to DL’s across all regions, except that DL grew domestic while UA kept it flat and UA grew Latin America while DL reduced its capacity there. One or the other outperformed AA in every region, including Latin America where AA has traditionally been able to match its capacity to what is necessary to support RASM growth. It is true that AA is not generating new revenue at the same rate as DL and UA, its largest competitors. All three carriers saw their best RASM growth over the Pacific with UA and DL’s RASM growth about 50% better than AA’s.
Second, AA was between DL and UA in capacity growth with AA growing every region by at least a small amount although because AA and UA are growing regional carrier capacity faster than their domestic capacity growth, they are shifting capacity from their domestic to international systems. DL is not growing regional capacity and is growing both domestic and international.
What is most interesting, however, is that UA’s costs continued to grow – bearing some credence to AA mgmt’s argument that they don’t need to cut costs because AA’s competitor costs were going to increase. Excluding fuel and special items, AA and DL reduced mainline CASM while UA increased costs, leaving UA with about a 2% increase in costs compared to AA and DL. AA did increase productivity slightly which allowed it to offset the increase in fuel costs. So, AA’s cost position relative to UA is improving although UA is improving revenue at a faster rate. UA’s costs are now 5% lower than AA’s – a sustainable difference if AA had comparable revenue while DL’s costs are 12% lower than UA’s and 18% lower than UA’s. Given that DL is generating the best revenue growth among the big 3 and also has the best cost structure, it shouldn’t be hard to argue that DL is indeed the best positioned of the 3 network carriers from a financial standpoint.
Redhead,
I think a lot of us will be happy if AA does have more capacity coming – and I believe the JAL 773s (nonER) could make a positive contribution to AA’s network, esp. if the majority are deployed to/from LHR. I still believe that if a large expansion in capacity is announced, it will be accompanied by announcements regarding some labor agreements, so I hope on a couple of counts that you are right. I still believe that APA’s leadership DOES recognize the challenges facing AA and will meet the company to address them.
 
Worldtraveler.

I agree with many of your view points.
Totally agree that AA needs to get serious
about competing with DL and UA if AA is going
to make it.
My only question to you is how to address senior
managements actions when it comes to their executive
compensations. AA lost close to $400 million last year
and a select few are getting $35 million as a reward
for such a dismall performance. I know $35 million is
a drop in a sea of water. But what this actions does to the moral
of tens of thousands of employees that have
sacrifice a lot for this company is beyond words.
Just because the board of directors approve these rewards
does not mean that they have to take it.
Not if they where serious about improving labor ralations at AA.

I agree that AA employees have fair better than other employees
that have gone thru the bankruptcy process. But that is no
excuse for senior management to have such a "disconnect"
from the people that actually run this airline on a daily basis.
 
Where is the disconnect? It seems like almost everyone on this board thinks that if management doesn't cave in to billions in raises demanded by our negotiators that means they are somehow evil and greedy.

I have seen the numbers and know what that would do to our company, my job and my retirement security. And I want no part of it.
 
My only question to you is how to address senior managements actions when it comes to their executive compensations.
<snip>
I agree that AA employees have fair better than other employees that have gone thru the bankruptcy process. But that is no excuse for senior management to have such a "disconnect" from the people that actually run this airline on a daily basis.

You think AA is bad and disconnected from the people that operate the airline on a daily basis? Start comparing executive comp across airlines... You might lose your appetite.
 
E am not saying AA is bad. Am just saying that if our executives would lead in this case with comensations maybe labor relations would be somewhat better at AA.
Would love to see how the majority of AA employees would feel if none of the executives had accepted a singe dollar of "bonuses" or whatever they want to call it since the restructuring agreements came into place. I bet you AA would be a totally different company when it comes to labor relations. You would always have a few that would not be happy no matter what; But I bet the majority of the employees would be more proactive about dealing with the challenges that are currently affecting AA.
 
Perhaps.

But as I've said ad nauseum: discussion about executive pay is nothing more than a distraction from the real issue -- new contracts for labor. Had all of the labor contracts been settled two years ago (for better or worse), I don't think as nearly as many of you would be re-hashing what took place in 2003.
 
Perhaps.

But as I've said ad nauseum: discussion about executive pay is nothing more than a distraction from the real issue -- new contracts for labor. Had all of the labor contracts been settled two years ago (for better or worse), I don't think as nearly as many of you would be re-hashing what took place in 2003.

You might be right. But it seems like AA is in no hurry to settle any of the contracts. TWU waiting to hear from the NMB.....APFA waiting to hear from
the NMB..........APA direct negotiations becuase none of the issues that are being discuss have a monetary value. If AA was serious about getting the
contracts done they would be in direct negotiations with all the unions.........even if what was being discuss was the "money" issues.
I do understand the company strategy. The longer they stall the negotiations the more they can save.
 
You might be right. But it seems like AA is in no hurry to settle any of the contracts.

Posturing aside, with the economy where it is, I don't think the unions are in any great hurry either. Negotiating at the bottom of an economic cycle can be hazardous to your paycheck.
 

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