Additional widebody aircraft

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Yes I'm serious. I've been in the cockpit of extended duty day flights due to departure delays and weather diversions in foreign countries with limited support where 3 pilots had been awake for 30+ hours.

Plenty of foreign carriers drive their pilots into the ground without labor/regulatory rest provisions. Feel free to fly on them.

Yes, fatigue is a safety issue.

My long haul flights are in the 8-10 hr range (USA east coast to EU), not the ultra-long 12+hr. However I'm still curious as how a crew of 2 captains + 2 FOs can handle fatigue better than a crew of 1 captain + 3 FOs? What are the issues that could arise to warrant such staffing? Also, which foreign carriers drive their pilots into the ground? What are the differences in staffing standards of EU carriers such as BA, LH, AF/KL etc compared to USA-based ones?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Negotiations are a two way street. I'm sure there's an offset that could resolve the issue. But APA wants a contract, not a side letter.

And it's not just one pilot upgrade. It's at least a hundred, because ORD-DEL would have to be accommodated. Each ultra long haul drives probably 20-30 incremental upgrades, assuming two shells airborne each day and flying it perhaps twice or three times a month.

There may also be some incremental FO seats required, since those guys aren't at the end of their careers yet. There's constant churn in the FO pool since they do upgrade at some stage to CA, and some still have reserve commitments as they try to finish out their military years of service for a pension. Maybe not as big of a deal as they're also probably more likely to fly higher time than more senior guys whose kids are already thru college...

Before you make DL the example to follow, don't forget that ALPA also gave management flexibility in return for pay: unlimited outsourcing of regional feed, and preferential bidding are just two examples. Great concepts, but ones that APA is unlikely to ever try to sell to the membership.

Last March, CO management offered to give their pilots DL's contract plus $1 on top of their book rates. The CO's pilots declined, even though it would have meant significant raises and improved things like crew rest (pilots apparently get the back row of coach on the 757?).

and that is precisely why I am relunctant (as I have said before) to argue about specfici components of labor contracts because each element is a part of a larger package.
When I say that it involves upgrading one pilot, I mean one pilot per crew - so yes, it involves hundreds of pilots over a longhaul fleet - and the union is not going to be content to just get the upgrade on one or two routes.
I am not holding DL up as the end all and be all of pilot contracts but after the BK period passed - and even during BK DL's dealings w/ ALPA were pretty tame in comparison to the industry - ALPA and DL have found very common ground that has allowed DL to aggressively grow long haul - and yes ultra long haul - flying.
As you know, pattern bargaining makes it very difficult for one carrier to not offer what has been negotiated at a peer elsewhere - and DL has made 2 captains the standard other groups want to reach for....

I can't tell you why CO's pilots chose to walk away from DL's contract but DL pilots did supposedly get pay and benefit improvements as of the 1st of the month and so far as I know have no problems flying whatever routes DL chooses to start - and likewise DL is willing to schedule in ways that accomodates ALPA's concerns. The point is simply that there are cases of labor - mgmt cooperation to the benefit of both. DALPA -IIRC - agreed fairly quickly to whatever needed to happen in order for DL to fly the LRs on flights as long as 17.5 hrs (I believe the longest DL flight so far), and the FAA chose to follow DL's scheduling practices for ULH flying as the basis for recommendations for all carriers (and yes, I know the issue is not fully resolved even now).

My point is simply that I and others want to see AA succeed and grow - but it can't happen unless there is a give and take to find ways to grow... AA's pilot costs are high because of lack of productivity - just like other AA labor groups. If APA is willing to trade some of that lack of productivity for the prospect of new growth, AA can get back into a growth mode... until then the likely risk is that AA will continue to shrink domestically because its pilot costs are not competitive while being unable to grow internationally because AA mgmt can't "reward" its unions w/ high value int'l flying while shrinking in its core domestic marketss.

 

[damajagua]

Another 777-300 on it's way to AMR