Afa Company Proposal Qusetion

Light Years

Veteran
Aug 27, 2002
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www.usaviation.com
I have a question regarding the pay scale in the company's latest proposal:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For flight attendants hired after the Effective Date of the 2004 AFA-US Airways Agreement, or for flight attendants recalled from involuntary furlough after the Effective Date of the 2004 AFA-US Airways Agreement (i.e., excludes flight attendants at MidAtlantic and with six (6) or more years of mainline longevity as of the Effective Date of the 2004 AFA-US Airways Agreement, but not those joining MidAtlantic after the Effective Date of the 2004 AFA-US Airways Agreement), the following rates of pay shall apply:



Year 1: $16.18

Year 2: $17.54

Year 3: $18.76

Year 4: $19.98

Year 5: $21.24

Year 6 and above: $24.75
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What does it mean where it says excludes F/As at MidAtlantic? Am I reading it wrong or will non-MDA furloughees be at these pay rates but MDA people returning to mainline will not? I'm confused.

Also, the year 6 and above pay of $24.75... does that mean anyone who returns from INVOL will top put at $24.75 forever, or for a certain amount of time or what?
 
Lightyears-

That's right! Anyone returning off INVOL FURLOUGH will never make more than $24.75. And don't think you new MEC AFA PRES will fight for you on that one. I know a few people that wrote to AFA and got some nasty responses back. One is even posted in the PHL crew room. It seems some LEC AFA leaders now turned MEC leaders are only concerned about F/A's currently on the property and will sell those SOON TO BE RETURNING down the river if need be. EAch senority group must look out for themselfs....I am just learning that.
 
USAirBoyA330 said:
...and will sell those SOON TO BE RETURNING down the river if need be.
[post="199480"][/post]​

Stop that! Union management is not responsible for company management's demands. If those not currently on property are sacrificing for those currently on property then that's their own fault. They should have seen this coming and planned ahead...why didn't they sign on back in 1999? The company was hiring like crazy then. Union management does not represent those people anyway. They represent YOU! Stop moaning and groaning and appreciate the fact that someone else will be sacrificing for the enhancement of your lifestyle. Heck, you should be thanking union management.

That is all.
jm
 
If the experience at AA with "B" scale is any indication (and we are talking B scale here regardless of what you call it)...

The enmity and resentment created by the institution of "B" scale at AA back in the 80's still exists today even though "B" scale doesn't exist anymore. The people who had to try to live on the "B" scale wages can still get tight-lipped and resentful sounding when they describe that period--particularly when you add the fact that the senior flight attendants got a 14% raise in return for poverty wages for the new hires.
 
I am talking about those F/A's that were hired back in 2000 and 2001 that worked mainline trips! They were hired under our contract and should be grandfathered in. If they want to create a payscale for "newhires" off the street then I might be a little more prone to AFA turning a blind eye BUT this is not what they are asking for.
Then when someone writes an AFA REP and gets a response like "oh well....we are not worried about you because your inactive", I think it would put a bad taste in my mouth as well.
 
jimntx said:
If the experience at AA with "B" scale is any indication (and we are talking B scale here regardless of what you call it)...

The enmity and resentment created by the institution of "B" scale at AA back in the 80's still exists today even though "B" scale doesn't exist anymore. The people who had to try to live on the "B" scale wages can still get tight-lipped and resentful sounding when they describe that period--particularly when you add the fact that the senior flight attendants got a 14% raise in return for poverty wages for the new hires.
[post="199528"][/post]​


You're right Jim. What we are doing is getting rid of A scale and grandfathering those of us at the higher rate we all know now as A scale. The company is hoping $8000 and payout vacation crumb they are offering will get ris of the old A scalers that are ready to move on.

I hear alot of selling out to the junior people and I uinderstand both sides. I just think anyone that was furloghed should come back to the rest of our scale and THEN new hires take the new scale. But nobody asked my opinion, so all I can do is voye yes or no and let the (horse) chips fall where they may.
 
firstsamendment-

Thanks and thats how I feel. I think that might be a fair outcome and will make most happy. I am just not happy at one of the Email responses I saw when a furloughed F/A asked the same question and asked AFA to fight for them. It was rude.
 
That's not unusual. One furloughee that called AFA with a concern was told "Move on with your life, isn't Southwest hiring?"

The F/A, who is very quick, said, "Yes, would you like me to get you an applcation?" ;)
 
Hold on just a cotton pickin minute!

If a person gets called off invol tomorrow and gets a class date to go to MAA, are you saying now they will only make 16.18 an hour? :shock:
 
No, MAA rates still apply I think... the above pay arates are mainline. So if you were called to MAA tomorrow with 2 years you'd be at $17.67, if you were called to mainline tomorrow with 2 years you'd be at $17.54. Go figure!

I'm still not sure what they are referring to mentioning MidAtlantic F/As exempt... do they mean these pay rates don't apply to MAA, or that MAA F/As won't endure these pay rates upon return to mainline? It can be read both ways.
 
Light Years said:
No, MAA rates still apply I think... the above pay arates are mainline. So if you were called to MAA tomorrow with 2 years you'd be at $17.67, if you were called to mainline tomorrow with 2 years you'd be at $17.54. Go figure!

I'm still not sure what they are referring to mentioning MidAtlantic F/As exempt... do they mean these pay rates don't apply to MAA, or that MAA F/As won't endure these pay rates upon return to mainline? It can be read both ways.
[post="199576"][/post]​

Wow, good eye Light Years. It seems convenient that it can be read two ways...
Honestly that 16.18 figure scared the bejeezus out of me. How could they expect any of their invols to return for that? What a slap in the face. ( "Thanks for hanging around all these years-come on back and we promise you'll wish you hadn't!" ) So so sad. For everyone involved. Sigh.
 
I think that is terrible and not right. I am a mainline (pilot) and I think we should all pull the rope together...no more two class of employees.

Lets send that message every chance we get!

USAirBoyA330 said:
Lightyears-

That's right! Anyone returning off INVOL FURLOUGH will never make more than $24.75. And don't think you new MEC AFA PRES will fight for you on that one. I know a few people that wrote to AFA and got some nasty responses back. One is even posted in the PHL crew room. It seems some LEC AFA leaders now turned MEC leaders are only concerned about F/A's currently on the property and will sell those SOON TO BE RETURNING down the river if need be. EAch senority group must look out for themselfs....I am just learning that.
[post="199480"][/post]​
 
Light Years said:
No, MAA rates still apply I think... the above pay arates are mainline. So if you were called to MAA tomorrow with 2 years you'd be at $17.67, if you were called to mainline tomorrow with 2 years you'd be at $17.54. Go figure!

I'm still not sure what they are referring to mentioning MidAtlantic F/As exempt... do they mean these pay rates don't apply to MAA, or that MAA F/As won't endure these pay rates upon return to mainline? It can be read both ways.
[post="199576"][/post]​

Light Years,

I agree with you and suspect that this is an editing error. If I recall correctly, AFA posted the original Company proposal in Adobe format with the "striked out" language intact and written in red. Looks like this one has been "cleaned up" for easier reading. Perhaps this is where the error originated.

As to selling out the junior AFA memberson INVOL, the whole thing makes me ill. ***These individuals still remain on the mainline seniority list and deserve every protection possible.*** They've already paid the highest price of all (involuntary furlough). MAA, well, that artificial POS pay scale is abhorrent as well.

BT
 
Oh, I've got P-L-E-N-T-Y to share on this subject, since this topic affects me personally...

When I saw the company's Proposal that would bring back Involuntarily Furloughed F/A's at a drastically reduced payscale with no hope of ever making more than $24.50, I was shocked and dismayed. I quickly e-mailed every pertinent AFA Leader on the subject to share my concern, and was basically dismissed by none other than the new MEC President, Ms. Teddy Xidas. I'm attaching the actual correspondance with Ms. Xidas to this post, because I think everyone should see the position our new MEC Leader takes in regard to the Involuntarily Furloughed F/A's and their interests...


(My First E-Mail)

Dear MEC Members:

I am writing this letter after reading the latest company proposal in hopes of expressing my view as a furloughed Mainline F/A. I was in the next to last class hired at USAirways back in May of 2001 and moved to Philadelphia from Ft. Lauderdale to pursue my passion of becoming a Flight Attendant. After being furloughed, I was forced to move on professionally, and became acclimated to a new job, new schedule, and essentially, "the 9-5 life", and to be perfectly honestly I can't stand it.

Everyday, I miss being a Flight Attendant, and would come back to USAirways tommorrow if it were possible. However, after reading the companies latest proposal I see the desire of the company to create a new "C" scale for former employees that still hold a Seniority #, (such as myself) that are called back from Involuntary Furlough. I believe this to be OUTRAGOUS, but sadly, I don't think many F/A's left at Mainline care about how this would affect me and might conceed to this horrible pay. I was hired at Mainline and worked trips at Mainline, therefore, I think it's only fair that I should be grandfathered in under the current Mainline payscale. I would even work under the reduced Mainline payscale, but not a whole separate "C" scale as the company has proposed, which would top me out at $24.50 after 6 years with no increase in pay ever. I've waited a long time for recall, but find this unacceptable, and would most likely not return if this horrifying new proposal actually were ratified. It is my sincere hope, that I have not waited and wished to return all these years for nothing.

I need your assurance that you will fight this and not just sacrifice us Furloughees for the sake of getting a better deal for the people on the property.

I appreciate your continued work in Negotiating and would welcome any and all responses. I am deeply concerened over this.

Thank-you for your time.

-XXXX XXXXXXX
-Furloughed Flight Attendant


(Teddy's E-Mail Response)

Dear XXXX,

Thank you for responding, and expressing your concern over the flight attendant profession. As you must know, USAirways is in their second trip to bankruptcy, and the industry, as a whole, is in peril over escalating fuel prices. ATA and Independence Air just filed for bankruptcy, and all legacy carriers are in "concession mode".

The union has been fighting since you left to maintain the integrity of the profession for all f/as. We are trying to maintain just a livable wage for everyone on the property as well as those who may return one day...if USAirways still exists.

There is much uncertainty in the industry, especially here at U, and the morale here is shattered. 80% of the f/as are topped out since all the furloughs, and we are currently in a total of 31% pay cut from 2001 levels. The bottom junior f/a on the property has 6 years seniority. With this next concession (#3) of work rule cost savings will create even more furloughs.

The job is not how you left it, and the reserve LTO system that commenced in November of 2003 has impoverished our reserves. Presently, there is only stagnation and the chance of a"recall" is through flight attendant attrition. AFA is trying to present proposals that meet the needs of the company for its survival as well as balance the needs (not the wants) for survival of the f/as who are actively working this job.

In a perfect world, we would endeavor to maintain our wages and working conditions that are deserving of our profession. But the environment today calls for "survival"; not improvements or even maintaining levels of past and present.

The flight attendants on the property today will vote according to what they can live with or not...and majority rules the day.

Hopefully, there will still be a company you can come back to when the dust clears. That is where our focus is.

Teddy Xidas
Local Executive Council President, Pittsburgh, AFA-CWA


(My E-Mail Response to Teddy)

Teddy,

I appreciate your response. I am very well informed of the ongoing struggle of the F/A's and the survival of the company, as I am still in touch with many friends who are still employed with USAirways. I understand the need for the company to reduce costs, as well as how difficult it must be for those who have given years of their lives to this company.

Having said that however, I feel that I am not considered important or protected by the AFA Leadership if they were to endorse such a proposal, should I ever have the opportunity to return to this company again. I could even understand having all new hires start at a new payscale such as that suggested by the company because they have never been on the property before. However, to say that those of us who have worked at USAirways Mainline in the past and wish to return will never make more than what used to be a 3 or 4 year F/A at $24.50 is completely unacceptable.

I've waited so long hoping for recall, but without a decent future or decent wage to ever achieve...Why would I even come back? I too, wish to fly again, and would do it for less than before, but what is being asked of Involuntary Furloughs upon their eventual return is harshly unfair and unreasonable. While I understand the need to protect those who are currently still employed, I feel as if the rest of us who have done this job are being thrown under the bus.

Again, I know the entire face of the Industry has changed and ALL airlines (not just USAirways) are in Survival Mode, but what is being proposed is nothing short of sickening. I sincerely hope the MEC Membership will take a stand on behalf of the Invoulntary Furloughs who wish to return. We wanted to be here before, and there's still a few of us out there that would love to return. We've got a lot of heart and could very well be the future of this company.

Most Sincerely,
-XXXX XXXXXXX
-Furloughed Flight Attendant


After this last e-mail was sent, I did not receive any further response from Teddy. I do not argue that it is important to protect those F/A's still on the property. However, I think it speaks volumes that there seems to be a clear lack of concern over those F/A's that will return to the company when/if the company turns the corner. Another issue that was not mentioned in my e-mail...exactly what caliber of employee do you think will work for such ridiculous wages? I sincerely hope that the Negotiating Committee as well as anyone who votes on any upcoming proposal takes this into consideration...who knows who (or what) you could end up sitting next to on the jumpseat if this God awful proposal were to come to pass...