All unions must eventually support ALPA

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On 2/5/2003 1:18:01 PM diogenes wrote:

Folks, this round is lost. Management caught the right politico-socio-economic environment, and landed a haymaker.

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diogenes is right.

The company is going to get their way no matter how united the Unions are. We can file as many grievances as we want but Dave's proven it time and again he's going to get concessions one way or another.
 
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On 2/5/2003 1:28:02 PM Biffeman wrote:

auto were you a mainline pilot in 1992? If so and you did not fly, did you get paid? I know the pilots did, but oldie is under the impression, none of this happened.
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Hey Biffeman,
Pilots got paid, mainly because pilots worked. NO pilot I know of, management or otherwise, cleaned planes or came in on time off to do other people's jobs. That IS A TOTAL LIE and you need to stop saying it! It just shows how poorly informed some people are, especially the ones with THE FLAPPING LIPS!
 
Seen by whom? You? then give me names. I'm sure as worked up that you are that you got them. Oh, that's right, you didn't, BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED. It's an urban legend, like waking up in a tub of water missing your kidney. I don't want to call anybody a liar, but if the shoe fits... Also, pilots were NOT on strike, and our contract guarantees us a certain level of pay. That's what everyone got. It's the contract. The reason the pilots didn't strike was that we had JUST SIGNED a very concessionary contract, and seen hundreds of OUR FELLOW PILOTS put out on the street due to the economic condition of the company at the time, and rather than participate the IAM chose, just like recently, to ignore the problem and demand more. That's what happened.
 
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On 2/5/2003 11:08:46 AM sabre wrote:

Listen to the ALPA code a phone and you will get a clear picture that management is violating or will be violating much of ALPA's contract with blatant disregard.

This is bigger than the Pilot pension and if all the unions don't stand up and support ALPA then management will pluck us all off one by one after they go after ALPA.

ALPA's the big boy but it will need whatever public and other support it can muster.
Whether you have love or not for pilots, if you, the IAM, AFA, or CWA don't offer any support possible then all unions will get plucked off one by one.

Whatever the case, there may be a long fight with a breached contract, and we can either support management the Liar, or ALPA. If we support management then don't be surpised when management the Liar turns back to you and says Gothcha!

love
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Sabre,

Let me propose an alternative, how about we all chose to work together (management and all labor groups) to make this airline the best airline in the business. The US management team is committed to making this airline profitable and competitivly viabile for the future. It is this driving principal that has caused us to make these extraordinary decisions to ensure the franchise ultimately survives, without everyone’s sacrifices the entity would not be here for any of us. The airline industry has changed and air travel no longer holds the same value in the consumers mind. Consumers expectations have changed and their expectations are to pay $79 to fly to PIT-LAX not $1779, because of this we have had to modify our cost structure and for that matter our entire franchise to work within this new reality, if we do not, we will not be around very long and I for one do not want that happen.
 
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On 2/5/2003 2:27:51 PM real world wrote:

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On 2/5/2003 11:08:46 AM sabre wrote:

Listen to the ALPA code a phone and you will get a clear picture that management is violating or will be violating much of ALPA's contract with blatant disregard.

This is bigger than the Pilot pension and if all the unions don't stand up and support ALPA then management will pluck us all off one by one after they go after ALPA.

ALPA's the big boy but it will need whatever public and other support it can muster.
Whether you have love or not for pilots, if you, the IAM, AFA, or CWA don't offer any support possible then all unions will get plucked off one by one.

Whatever the case, there may be a long fight with a breached contract, and we can either support management the Liar, or ALPA. If we support management then don't be surpised when management the Liar turns back to you and says Gothcha!

love
----------------
Sabre,

Let me propose an alternative, how about we all chose to work together (management and all labor groups) to make this airline the best airline in the business. The US management team is committed to making this airline profitable and competitivly viabile for the future. It is this driving principal that has caused us to make these extraordinary decisions to ensure the franchise ultimately survives, without everyone’s sacrifices the entity would not be here for any of us. The airline industry has changed and air travel no longer holds the same value in the consumers mind. Consumers expectations have changed and their expectations are to pay $79 to fly to PIT-LAX not $1779, because of this we have had to modify our cost structure and for that matter our entire franchise to work within this new reality, if we do not, we will not be around very long and I for one do not want that happen.

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realworld, I agree that labor and management SHOULD work together to make this airline stronger..I believe this could happen if EVERY employee were required to take pay and benefit concessions during these difficult times..A good start would be for those chosen few who benefited from the 6 MILLION DOLLAR BONUS PROGRAM,, to give it back ,,This would go a long way in making your proposal a reality..
 
The pilots on layoff in 1992 were still getting paid, that is how concessionary your contract was. And once again, there were pilots who cleaned planes while we were on strike and during the 30 day cooling off period, that is why hundreds of grievances were filed, there were pilots that did not write up things so the planes could still fly.

And there was a side deal between ALPA and the company that is why the pilots of the grounded fokkers and douglas' got paid. The company does not have to pay pilots who are not flying due to a labor strike. That is why the AFA supported the IAM strike and were ordered by the court to return to work. The company never went to court againt ALPA, because you had a side deal. Facts speak for themselves.

And once again, did I strike a nerve cause you cleaned airplanes?
 
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On 2/5/2003 2:53:09 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:

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On 2/5/2003 1:28:02 PM Biffeman wrote:

auto were you a mainline pilot in 1992? If so and you did not fly, did you get paid? I know the pilots did, but oldie is under the impression, none of this happened.
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Hey Biffeman,
Pilots got paid, mainly because pilots worked. NO pilot I know of, management or otherwise, cleaned planes or came in on time off to do other people's jobs. That IS A TOTAL LIE and you need to stop saying it! It just shows how poorly infromed some people are, especially the ones with THE FLAPPING LIPS!
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So if the company grounded all the F28s, F100s, DC-9s and MD-80s how did those pilots work and get paid?

Pilots in CLT were seen cleaning airplanes and running parts, is that how they got paid?

A320 driver your facts are wrong, ALPA took a paycut before the IAM went on strike. We were on strike for 5 days, Monday thru Friday, voted Saturday and came back to work Sunday. And we took a paycut on top of it for 12 months, like the rest of the employees and we lost 50% of the line mechanics in that agreement.

By the way oldie, are you one of the pilots who came in on their own time and cleaned airplanes? I am wondering this cause it seems I struck a nerve with this topic.
 
Biff is right oldie. I also have family and friends that are in ALPA and they got paid. It's true too what happened to fleet and customer service. They got the ultimate suppository.
 
I remember numerous pilots driving by and giving the one finger salute to the guys on the picket line and several flight attendants and other waiving and honking in support of the picket line. There is and will always be distrust between the mechanics and the pilots. No use in arguing with him Biffe. I have an elderly grandmother who has memory trouble also.

--You can never (ever) change history. Even if you would like too.

--Just like Rambo said. "You drew first blood". (Now you must live with it forever.)
 
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On 2/5/2003 3:36:11 PM insp89 wrote:

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On 2/5/2003 2:27:51 PM real world wrote:

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On 2/5/2003 11:08:46 AM sabre wrote:

Listen to the ALPA code a phone and you will get a clear picture that management is violating or will be violating much of ALPA's contract with blatant disregard.

This is bigger than the Pilot pension and if all the unions don't stand up and support ALPA then management will pluck us all off one by one after they go after ALPA.

ALPA's the big boy but it will need whatever public and other support it can muster.
Whether you have love or not for pilots, if you, the IAM, AFA, or CWA don't offer any support possible then all unions will get plucked off one by one.

Whatever the case, there may be a long fight with a breached contract, and we can either support management the Liar, or ALPA. If we support management then don't be surpised when management the Liar turns back to you and says Gothcha!

love
----------------
Sabre,

Let me propose an alternative, how about we all chose to work together (management and all labor groups) to make this airline the best airline in the business. The US management team is committed to making this airline profitable and competitivly viabile for the future. It is this driving principal that has caused us to make these extraordinary decisions to ensure the franchise ultimately survives, without everyone’s sacrifices the entity would not be here for any of us. The airline industry has changed and air travel no longer holds the same value in the consumers mind. Consumers expectations have changed and their expectations are to pay $79 to fly to PIT-LAX not $1779, because of this we have had to modify our cost structure and for that matter our entire franchise to work within this new reality, if we do not, we will not be around very long and I for one do not want that happen.

----------------
[/blockquote]
realworld, I agree that labor and management SHOULD work together to make this airline stronger..I believe this could happen if EVERY employee were required to take pay and benefit concessions during these difficult times..A good start would be for those chosen few who benefited from the 6 MILLION DOLLAR BONUS PROGRAM,, to give it back ,,This would go a long way in making your proposal a reality..
----------------
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Those employees that benifited from the $6 million dollar bonus, gave an equal share of their salary and I can assure you they are not better off today then they were a year ago. The overall paycut they took was far greater than their bonus payment and they given back a far greater share then equally compensated union employees.
 
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On 2/5/2003 3:42:19 PM Biffeman wrote:

The pilots on layoff in 1992 were still getting paid, that is how concessionary your contract was. And once again, there were pilots who cleaned planes while we were on strike and during the 30 day cooling off period, that is why hundreds of grievances were filed, there were pilots that did not write up things so the planes could still fly.

And there was a side deal between ALPA and the company that is why the pilots of the grounded fokkers and douglas' got paid. The company does not have to pay pilots who are not flying due to a labor strike. That is why the AFA supported the IAM strike and were ordered by the court to return to work. The company never went to court againt ALPA, because you had a side deal. Facts speak for themselves.

And once again, did I strike a nerve cause you cleaned airplanes?
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ALPA didn't have a "side deal" they never went on strike. That is why they were paid. Period, end of discussion.
 
hello mlt,

first, my bad, and let me offer my sincerest apology - AFA folks are among my favorites. we have a lot of f/a's commute, and I make it a point to go up the jetway to have a brief visit.

what can I say? that's what happens when you have a 40+ year old trying to multi-task - things go undone!

how can I make it up?