Alpa Does One For The Gipper

[delldude]

seriously......in the face of a possible BK filing...do you think the boys at ALPA will buy off on a 'modification' of their agreement on their own??
if they " go it alone "...and buy into it....and U doesn't file for reorginization...what does the cards say??
if ALPA does "play ball ".......would their conncessions be enough to avoid a BK filing??and keep the cash reserve viable until sometime in early 2005 ??without any participation by most of the other groups?
and if the "others" do not accept....will ALPA accept this scenario out of fear of a possible 1113 abrogation?? 😉

 

[us0004us]

seriously......in the face of a possible BK filing...do you think the boys at ALPA will buy off on a 'modification' of their agreement on their own??
if they " go it alone "...and buy into it....and U doesn't file for reorginization...what does the cards say??
if ALPA does "play ball ".......would their conncessions be enough to avoid a BK filing??and keep the cash reserve viable until sometime in early 2005 ??without any participation by most of the other groups?
and if the "others" do not accept....will ALPA accept this scenario out of fear of a possible 1113 abrogation?? 😉

[post="169973"][/post]​

bk appears to be the name of the game unless of course all unions come to some sort of agreement with bronner and company.

and even then, bk may still be the process we must endure....

remember .."you do not get what you deserve...you get what you negotiate!"

 

[cavalier]

bk appears to be the name of the game unless of course all unions come to some sort of agreement with bronner and company.

and even then, bk may still be the process we must endure....

remember .."you do not get what you deserve...you get what you negotiate!"

[post="169974"][/post]​

I openly admit to being a crap stirrer on here and was told by someone I respect and very knowledgeable in human nature, his field, that I should stop playing this game because it actually affects some readers too severely. Here I was thinking, who cares everyone knows the score and knows how to put it into perspective, but apparently not.

Therefore and with that said I have ceased to stir the crap because this entire mess is serious and will have profound consequences on many who read these boards, not a game, I was wrong.

I am not one for rumors but that's all there is to feed on while we all wait in extreme anticipation, so here is one that supposedly has some validly and I figured I would drop it in here. Time will tell if this occurs. This is from someone at CCY who needed to get it off their chest as it was weighing heavily on them.

Scenario is this: Come September 15 or close to that date U files bankruptcy chapter 11, then in December sometime, when was not mentioned, but in December U will file chapter 7 and end it.


I have heard probably a million rumors since being at U, but I must say this one for some reason seems to be true in my gut, who knows? So take it with a grain of salt or whatever weight you care to apply, but honestly, this is an remark I received from someone who really would know.

Mow me down if you want, kill the messenger, but this is “NOTâ€￾ my idea but what I really heard!

So Dude, kind of makes your topic moot if this is truth doesn't it....

 

[Dizel8]

It does not make sense to declare 7 in December, since December is generally a money making month with the holidays and all. January I could see.

However, it must be said, I still do not think U will disappear. Hopefully, the company will start negotiating in GOOD faith with the unions and some kind of agreement will be reached.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Cav,

I certainly won't discount your "rumor".

If the IRS doesn't go along with the pension payment deferral, we may violate the American Express agreement and be forced to deposit another $50 million with them.

I have no idea if the talk of not meeting the ATSB covenants concerns the "cash" on hand or EBITDAR requirements (or both), but the pension payment and AmEx deposit will push us close to the "cash" requirement going into the 4th quarter.

Even with an agreement with ALPA, the time to have a membership vote will mean that there will be no savings from that agreement in the 3rd quarter. Other groups, even if they reach an agreement, are looking at sometime in the 4th quarter before savings kick in.

In short, it looks to me that the only chance U has is getting an agreement with ALPA (and possibly 1 or 2 other groups), and using that to convince the ATSB to give us "a little longer". I strongly suspect that if the ATSB goes along, there will be a pretty hefty price to pay (as in the $250 million early this year).

Jim

 

[nycbusdriver]

I would guess that the chances of USAirways filing Chapter 11 in the near term are about 98.5%. The IAM seems to be typically recalcitrant and their position will force the filing. It will be done with the creditors on board, and it will also give Lakefield a chance to do some "mopping up" of many details which Siegel left undone.

If the pilots manage to get a TA passed before the filing (almost impossible to do in less than 4 -5 weeks,) when the Chapter 11 motion is filed, their TA will become meaningless. Lakefield will go after the pilots again, and he will go after all the other groups whether or not they have a new TA in place.

The pilots' new DC pension plan will be a mere shadow of its short-lived former self, and the age discrimination lawsuits will come in droves, thus casting another shadow on what remains of the company.

 

[USA320Pilot]

CEO Bruce Lakefield told the ALPA MEC last week that if ALPA was the only union to have an agreement in place the company would file for bankruptcy. Without an ALPA agreement the company would have a 5% chance of survival and with an ALPA deal a 50% chance of survival, he said.

CFO Dave Davis told the MEC the company was not very hopeful US Airways would obtain IRS pension relief. Lakefield then said the company would have to make a very difficult pension decision.

Lakefield also indicated that if the company enters bankruptcy they would need even deeper cuts from those labor groups who do not agree to participate in the TP because bankruptcy is very expensive. He indicated the company would have a very good chance of getting court relief from labor contracts because without them, the company would not be cost competitive with the LCC's.

To prevent an AmEx problem, the company could take action to not make the pension payments.

ALPA MEC Reps are now indicating there will be a TA this week and that the agreement could be ratified in as little as 7 days, but will probably take about 10 days for electronic balloting.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

The company cannot file voluntary, the ATSB loan prevents it and the company told the IAM it is hopeful in getting the pension relief but with strict guidelines.

 

[Dizel8]

"Lakefield also indicated that if the company enters bankruptcy they would need even deeper cuts from those labor groups who do not agree to participate in the TP because bankruptcy is very expensive."

Yes, it is well known, that nothing foster cooperation like taking "revenge" on a employee group or groups. Leadership is obviously not a strenght of his!

From following this, it sadly appears U is doomed to fail. Having read these boards and seeing the absolute unbelievable rhetoric the employees have to put it, it appears, that there is no plan and no desire to run a great airline. Persistently, the company issues thinly veiled threats and they are assisted by a prolific poster on the boards.

I do not for a second doubt, that the IAM and the CWA is willing to negotiate, but it must be honest negotiations, not demands with attached threats. The company does not appear to be willing to listen and I would hope a judge would see it for what it is, extortion. How can a union negotiate with a company, that persistently violates the agreed to contract.

It may just be me, but the subject of outsourcing all airbi work and geting rid of the Mechs, seems to to fill some people with glee and that as long as those people can collect a pay check, to heck with every one else.

 

[robbedagain]

The company cannot file voluntary, the ATSB loan prevents it and the company told the IAM it is hopeful in getting the pension relief but with strict guidelines.

[post="170050"][/post]​

could the atsb go with usair on this bk as chip has said before? if so how could this be in reality?

 

[mwereplanes]

The company cannot file voluntary, the ATSB loan prevents it and the company told the IAM it is hopeful in getting the pension relief but with strict guidelines.

[post="170050"][/post]​

700:

My guess would be that the ATSB would delete that provision of the loan guarantee requirements if they thought a pre-packaged C11 would be in the best interest of repaying the loan. I imagine the company has already asked and recieved approval for this C11 trip from them.

As far as pension relief I would hope the lawyers can get the approval to do the deal but the PBGC will be screaming for the IRS to not allow it.

mr

 

[insp89]

CEO Bruce Lakefield told the ALPA MEC last week that if ALPA was the only union to have an agreement in place the company would file for bankruptcy. Without an ALPA agreement the company would have a 5% chance of survival and with an ALPA deal a 50% chance of survival, he said.

CFO Dave Davis told the MEC the company was not very hopeful US Airways would obtain IRS pension relief. Lakefield then said the company would have to make a very difficult pension decision.

Lakefield also indicated that if the company enters bankruptcy they would need even deeper cuts from those labor groups who do not agree to participate in the TP because bankruptcy is very expensive. He indicated the company would have a very good chance of getting court relief from labor contracts because without them, the company would not be cost competitive with the LCC's.

To prevent an AmEx problem, the company could take action to not make the pension payments.

ALPA MEC Reps are now indicating there will be a TA this week and that the agreement could be ratified in as little as 7 days, but will probably take about 10 days for electronic balloting.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="170048"][/post]​

320, .......Is ALPA planning to agree on more concessions before the outcome of the Airbus Arbitration is known ?

 

[N924PS]

320, .......Is ALPA planning to agree on more concessions before the outcome of the Airbus Arbitration is known ?

[post="170083"][/post]​

Based on what the company's latest counterproposal to the pilots contains, it is highly unlikely that any deal will be reached at all.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Based on what the company's latest counterproposal to the pilots contains, it is highly unlikely that any deal will be reached at all.

[post="170268"][/post]​

I concur. It's going to be an interesting autumn. Folks better start getting their suits pressed. It's interview time! :angry:

 

[Industry Observer]

The latest edition from Holly Hegeman's Planebusiness Banter is an interesting read. Since her newsletter is copyrighted, I will give an excerpt from my view.

ALPA's financial advisor Michael Glanzer would be paid a one-time fee if the pilots agreed to concessions, this fee would be approx $1 million. If the pilots didn't agree to concessions he would be paid an hourly fee. ALPA did not pay for his services from CCY paid the fees. Holly sums up the article that Glanzer's services were only a company rubber stamp of what they need and not really a 3rd party financial analysis.

Anyone know if this is true?