ALPA needs to fight for the east...

[safety stud]

Whether we like it or not, ALPA needs to fight for the east pilot group to the inth degree. If not the award as it stands will set the standard by which future mergers by ALPA are set. M/A will continue to happen.

Like I said in another post. The time for "He said, She said" is over. Whether the award stands as is, whether fences go up, whether legal action is taken, it is what it is.

There are bigger fish to fry right now. This airline is in an un-controled spiral. Unless something is done, and done fast there won't be an airline to work for. That's regardless of east/west differences.

An amicable working environment is necessary to continue working. If you won't let a pilot ride your jumpseat, so be it. Remember though, what goes around comes around...

Real problems need real solutions...
Not hyped up rhetoric...
No Hyperbole...
No fisticuffs...

Let ALPA run its course with this, and move on...

Just my opinion...

 

[exB717Flyer]

If not the award as it stands will set the standard by which future mergers by ALPA are set.

That's true but think about what it means: any subsequent arbitration is subject to review and alteration by ALPA. So why bother agreeing to binding arbitration if ALPA can change it? Don't forget that the reason integrations end up in arbitration is because the two sides can't agree. This is why we (the West) say Nicolau's Award is binding and that's that. What other integration process could possibly be considered fair to you guys?

 

[AWA320]

Whether we like it or not, ALPA needs to fight for the east pilot group to the inth degree. If not the award as it stands will set the standard by which future mergers by ALPA are set. M/A will continue to happen.

Like I said in another post. The time for "He said, She said" is over. Whether the award stands as is, whether fences go up, whether legal action is taken, it is what it is.

There are bigger fish to fry right now. This airline is in an un-controled spiral. Unless something is done, and done fast there won't be an airline to work for. That's regardless of east/west differences.

An amicable working environment is necessary to continue working. If you won't let a pilot ride your jumpseat, so be it. Remember though, what goes around comes around...

Real problems need real solutions...
Not hyped up rhetoric...
No Hyperbole...
No fisticuffs...

Let ALPA run its course with this, and move on...

Just my opinion...

Give it a rest SS!! ALPA needs to do what it's supposed to do and that's defend this award. Yeah we do have operational problems but they are all EAST INDUCED!! The time for any deals was long before now so that ship has sailed too. Your MEC had several opportunities to work this thing out but they flatly refused. Now you stand to lose even more but this time it will be your pockets that take the hit or finally your careers. All this posturing by the east don't add up to a hill of beans. We will do any and everything we can to make this thing work.

Standing by for the injunctions against the east MEC.

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA320,

From your post it sounds as if you're prepared to go to war with the East pilots, which will last atleast a decade unless their is a settlement.

If that is what you want so be it because the East beleives by doing nothing they have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

I guess it is time for your pilot group to start Section VI negotiations, seniority list stagnation, prepare for the AWA ALPA MEC to be decertified, and new union imposition.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[safety stud]

Give it a rest SS!! ALPA needs to do what it's supposed to do and that's defend this award. Yeah we do have operational problems but they are all EAST INDUCED!! The time for any deals was long before now so that ship has sailed too. Your MEC had several opportunities to work this thing out but they flatly refused. Now you stand to lose even more but this time it will be your pockets that take the hit or finally your careers. All this posturing by the east don't add up to a hill of beans. We will do any and everything we can to make this thing work.

Standing by for the injunctions against the east MEC.

Glad to see you feel strongly about this issue.

Now lets add something to the mix. Your union fights not only for the group but individualy as well. It is the job of the union to fight for everything it can. Protect and defend EACH dues paying member. You act as if the west is the only one to pay dues.

Opportunities or not, failure to work things out or not, is not the issue here. It is the job of the union to fight each battle for each member.

Just my humble opinion...

 

[EastUS]

"Yeah we do have operational problems but they are all EAST INDUCED!! The time for any deals was long before now so that ship has sailed too."

Sigh...OK then..."that ship has sailed"....the problems are "all east induced"....and you've zero solutions to offer.

Ummm..is it perhaps time to put aside your apparently opaque glasses and even momentarily observe that the current situation's proving itself to be potentially fatal to the company? What good is your inflated "seniority" if the evil, black-hearted easties sink this ship? Isn't it perhaps time to re-evaluate the AWA "love it or shove it...it's Done" approach to all this?

 

[700UW]

You cant impose a new union, both West and East pilots are under single carrier status, you would need 50%+1 of all total pilots to sign cards to force an election.

Then you would need a 50%+1 to vote to certify a new union, if that is not reached both sides will be non-union with no CBA.

You really do not know anything about the RLA and the process, give it a rest with your false facts and rhetoric, everyone sees right through you and your bull feces.

There is no process to decertify a union under the RLA, only a process to replace one union with another.

No wonder why you could never get elected to a union position because you have no idea of what you talk about, your empty threats scare no one as you have no idea of what you speak about.

And changing unions does not change the CBA nor stop the arbitration award from being implemented.

How many times do you have to be told the samething until you comprehend it and stop posting false information?

Don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[EastUS]

"both West and East pilots are under single carrier status, you would need 50%+1 of all total pilots to sign cards to force an election."

"Then you would need a 50%+1 to vote to certify a new union,"

Given what I've heard and observed around the east system of late...neither of those constraints should prove problematic.

 

[Junebug172]

Man, the stupidity.

Did you not read the single carrier status? You'll need ONE CBA to merge out certificates. If we have one CBA, we have ONE seniority list - Nicolau's.

After that, you can put in whoever you want, but nothing is going to change.

AWA320,

From your post it sounds as if you're prepared to go to war with the East pilots, which will last atleast a decade unless their is a settlement.

If that is what you want so be it because the East beleives by doing nothing they have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

I guess it is time for your pilot group to start Section VI negotiations, seniority list stagnation, prepare for the AWA ALPA MEC to be decertified, and new union imposition.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

A decade means you'll be gone.

I think your top 1000 or so pilots believe otherwise. Be prepared to be swept under a rug. Remember your history!

If we go SecVI, you'll still be flying LOA93 at rates worse than ours. If that's how you want to retire, so be it.

And as for the rest of your post, keep dreaming your little dream.

 

[AAA#6]

By the time it takes to decertify, establish another union for EAST (so that you can remain seperate), then attempt to renegotiate with Kirby....you are looking at 5 years. With an average age of 52 at East it seems pretty risky ot hedge bets and loose money you could make with a combined contract. So you can put all your cards on the table and risk it all. Or you can take your pissed off attitude to get a combined contract that will make you more money in the end.

Dudes (as we say out West)...DP and Kirby have been exploiting your concessionary contract since Day 1. And they will continue too. Hmmmm. Funny they were willing to bring Delta wages up during the merger talks. I would have figured that when Parker said that, he should have brought East up to West right then. I mean your suppose to be family right? But nope. He screwed you, and will continue to screw you....because he can. Have fun.

So go ahead with your decert process. I don't really care. I have 24 years to go, and this outfit ain't going anywhere. Doug may go. You may go. But I am not.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,

From your post it sounds as if you're prepared to go to war with the East pilots, which will last atleast a decade unless their is a settlement.

If that is what you want so be it because the East beleives by doing nothing they have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

I guess it is time for your pilot group to start Section VI negotiations, seniority list stagnation, prepare for the AWA ALPA MEC to be decertified, and new union imposition.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

I say go for it, decertify but I hope you are not under the mistaken impression that the award would then be void!! Boy you guys are about to blow a boat load of money on a losing effort.

New union?? representing who?? Don't count on the west to contribute one red cent to it's existence so you go right ahead cause we ain't worried over here!!

There will be NO DEALS besides you don't have anything to bargin with.

NWA/Republic bring it on baby...

 

[EastUS]

"So go ahead with your decert process. I don't really care. I have 24 years to go, and this outfit ain't going anywhere. Doug may go. You may go. But I am not."


Sigh...Ah Young One...I too, once had fantasies that things wouldn't change, nor my prieviously beloved airline(s) be bought up, or otherwise destroyed. Run yourself back 24 years and think on the changes to you/your life in that time. 24 years is a Looooooong time. Make no bets beyond today.

I do wish you the best in your life and flying.

 

[EMBFA]

I don't really care. I have 24 years to go, and this outfit ain't going anywhere. Doug may go. You may go. But I am not.

Awesome! Maybe 20 years from now you can be stripped of that seniority and placed below someone who is teething right now!

Welcome Aboard!

 

[SkyRat]

Dudes (as we say out West)...DP and Kirby have been exploiting your concessionary contract since Day 1. And they will continue too. Hmmmm. Funny they were willing to bring Delta wages up during the merger talks. I would have figured that when Parker said that, he should have brought East up to West right then. I mean your suppose to be family right? But nope. He screwed you, and will continue to screw you....because he can. Have fun.

Amazing!!!

Just incredible how blind the Easties are. Binding arbitration is THAT!!! You MC and MEC blew it, now lets move forward. U can keep arguing that it is not fair, blah, blah, blah... Life's not fair... Get used to it.

In the meantime we have 757 Capt's with 9 years seniority making $40k+ than your 22 year FO's... And FO's making $10 more an hour.

Once you guys get over it, we can all achieve a SINGLE contract that might balance the "reality" of this ruling. It's your call...

GL

 

[AWA320]

Awesome! Maybe 20 years from now you can be stripped of that seniority and placed below someone who is teething right now!

Welcome Aboard!

Ahhh the original gerber baby. I guess I just don't understand why we should be placed at the bottom!! I mean our #1 is now 517 he lost 516 numbers while your #1 lost well NOTHING!!! Your furloughs have been and continue to be furloughed for 7 years. You want us to be, well YOU in a sense. I mean here we were hiring pilots and in your sense F/A's. We were posting profits and in fact just prior to the announcment of this thing we posted the highest profit in AWA history. Yeah I know Daquari Doug said we would be bankrupt in a few months but I just don't see how unless the company was lying about the profits!! It's been done before but those who did it went to jail and some even died. (enron, worldcom etc.)

Eventually this will all die down and the tempers will subside, just don't expect to take shots at us and we not return them.