ALPA offers MDA pilots $1Million

[Junebug172]

I am a East f/o. I had to work hard to arrive at my humble station in life. I am a lot like you. I have watched my significant other soothe sick children and comfort elderly relatives that were dying. Your mistake is you look at me as less than human.

Treat me like you expect to be treated, anything else is disrespect towards me that will only rejuvenate my energy to destroy your selfish cause.

Lurker, lurker, lurker

And you are not an east pilot. I don't even think you're a pilot at all.

Now, either "destroy my selfish" cause or move on to another forum. I hear AirTran's board is picking up.

 

[Phoenix]

Lurker, lurker, lurker

And you are not an east pilot. I don't even think you're a pilot at all.

Now, either "destroy my selfish" cause or move on to another forum. I hear AirTran's board is picking up.

Will the real lurker stand up?

The USAir Mainline pilots, that are affectionately called MDA, are doing just fine addressing the selfish desires of the ALPA EC, and by extension, your's. Patience Mayfly... patience. B)

 

[exB717Flyer]

(Even if it is decided that Nicolau's reasoning was proper, his list is corrupted because he had in inaccurate list.)

Well, we know Nicolau made at least one error. The one the AWA MC informed us of was he forgot to include the 757 arbitration award provisions (which benefits the East nicely). He will be revising the Award to reflect that. No idea what the timeline is.

As far as MDA, there was obviously a dispute as to the status of those pilots. Nicolau ruled on it. Since both sides agreed to abide by his ruling you're way too optimistic about what a judge would do. S/he's not going to revisit all the arguments Nicolau aready heard. My guess is the inevitable Motion to Dismiss will be granted due to lack of an actionable complaint.

 

[A320 Driver]

Well, we know Nicolau made at least one error. The one the AWA MC informed us of was he forgot to include the 757 arbitration award provisions (which benefits the East nicely). He will be revising the Award to reflect that. No idea what the timeline is.

As far as MDA, there was obviously a dispute as to the status of those pilots. Nicolau ruled on it. Since both sides agreed to abide by his ruling you're way too optimistic about what a judge would do. S/he's not going to revisit all the arguments Nicolau aready heard. My guess is the inevitable Motion to Dismiss will be granted due to lack of an actionable complaint.

I'm sure if something was left out that will further disadvantage the East pilot group, Nicolau will jump right on it.

It's doubtful it will make any difference anyway.

A320 Driver B)

 

[exB717Flyer]

I'm sure if something was left out that will further disadvantage the East pilot group, Nicolau will jump right on it.

The 757 arbitration is already set in stone so it's merely a procedural thing to incorporate it into the Nic Award. And I didn't read any vindictiveness in Nicolau's reasoning so why do you think he would deliberately act to disadvantage one side? Afterall, he was effectively chosen by both sides.

Part of the remedy is that the MDA pilots are put back in their places on the seniority list.

My opinion is that couldn't happen since the judge would consider the Nicolau list a fait accompli. It might affect any eventual compensatory damage but the judge won't touch the list.

 

[Phoenix]

OK, let me put on my amatuer lawyer cap for a moment. Let's suppose for the sake of debate that the MDA pilots take their DFR suit against ALPA to verdict and win both financial and punitive damages. Part of the remedy is that the MDA pilots are put back in their places on the seniority list.

How does this effect Nicolau? MDA suit started long before Nicolau. Can MDA be used to overturn Nicolau? This reminds me of the who NWA F/A almost strike where a court ruled that BK law supercedes RLA law, thus squashing the F/A's right to strike.

So does the MDA DFR suit trump Nicolau or the other way around?

Just asking.

1. Is the MDA lawsuit an issue or question prior to Nicolau's consideration, to which Nicolau had to presume accuracy in order to proceed in his decision?

2. If the judge rules in favor of MDA, does the judgement have an affect on the facts of consideration that Nicolau worked with?

3. If a judge rules that, by very definition, ALPA MECs entered into arbitration under false pretenses based on prejudicial and harmful seniority lists of the separate airlines, then does a subsequent decision of by an arbitrator (who obviously depended on the accuracy of the separate lists) trump a judge's verdict on statements of fact used by the arbitrator, when the arbitrator had no responsibility or authority to make a determination about the accuracy of the separate seniority lists in the first place?

 

[Phoenix]

As far as MDA, there was obviously a dispute as to the status of those pilots. Nicolau ruled on it. Since both sides agreed to abide by his ruling.. a fait accompli

Apples and oranges.

Nicolau was not the arbiter of the status of MDA pilots. The MDA issue was a dispute between MDA pilots and ALPA, to which Nicolau was never authorized to preside over.

Nicolau was the arbiter of the dispute between the parties of USAir and AWA. Each MEC (and ALPA national) had the responsibility to ensure Nicolau received the accurate seniority list of the two airlines.

If your argument is that both sides of ALPA agreed they did not know what the accurate status of MDA pilots should be and thus allowed Nicolau to rule on their status, then that merely admits ALPA's culpability, and the corruption of the facts that Nicolau used to make his determination.

The facts would be helpful.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Nicolau was not the arbiter of the status of MDA pilots. The MDA issue was a dispute between MDA pilots and ALPA, to which Nicolau was never authorized to preside over.

Well, I do think the two are interrelated and Nicolau was within his bounds to rule on the place the MDA pilots should have on the final list. I agree that ALPA mishandled MDA and that led to confusion over their exact status, however, an arbitrator is considered the highest authority in pilot-to-pilot disputes. The EC is obviously a political body which is why ALPA Policy takes them out of the loop in mergers.

As for the accuracy of lists presented to Nicolau, that is also subject to interpretation. For instance, the first non-"certified" list AAA gave to the AWA MC listed many pilots as furloughed yet they were then listed as active on the certified list. The heart of the matter is whether MDA pilots were mainline or something else. If you read the transcripts you'll see he was very well informed by the AAA MC on the issues. Nicolau ruled they were something else. I don't know much about the MDA lawsuit but you can bet the Nic Award will be presented as evidence.

 

[EMBFA]

Wouldn't it be ironic if it was the MDA dispute that ended up saving every US pilots seniority.

 

[IMisstheAladdinTrays]

Wouldn't it be ironic if it was the MDA dispute that ended up saving every US pilots seniority.

Since the start of MDA it has been the glue that has held this S___ Hole together...it will be rather fitting!

 

[xoxo]

Wouldn't it be ironic if it was the MDA dispute that ended up saving every US pilots seniority.

EMBFA....you are most likely correct. I can see it happening. Carma is a BI*&^H!

 

[Phoenix]

Well, I do think the two are interrelated and Nicolau was within his bounds to rule on the place the MDA pilots should have on the final list. I agree that ALPA mishandled MDA and that led to confusion over their exact status, ...

Nicolau was legally authorized to arbitrate the dispute between the two MECs that agreed to legally request his services, in order to integrate two seniority lists from two companies. The agreement of each party is the ONLY thing that granted Nicolau the authority to be the arbitrator and the same agreement is what stipulated the extent of Nicolau's powers (or jurisdiction if you will).

At what time did the MDA pilots agree to participate in the arbitration before Nicolau for the purpose of settling the dispute of their status as Mainline Active Pilots?

As for the accuracy of lists presented to Nicolau, that is also subject to interpretation. For instance, the first non-"certified" list AAA gave to the AWA MC listed many pilots as furloughed yet they were then listed as active on the certified list. The heart of the matter is whether MDA pilots were mainline or something else. If you read the transcripts you'll see he was very well informed by the AAA MC on the issues. Nicolau ruled they were something else.

1. Did someone claim the authority to submit to binding arbitration on behalf of the MDA pilots?
2. Who did MDA pilots have a dispute with regarding their status as Active Mainline Pilots?

If the answer is the same, that is problematic.

 

[Cactus737]

If you read the transcripts you'll see he was very well informed by the AAA MC on the issues.

That's the core of the issue, isn't it. Either the East pilots haven't read the transcripts, and are hanging onto the baloney their MEC feeds them, or they HAVE read the transcripts and DON'T CARE what the facts are.

The important thing is that at least two other legacy carrier MEC's have come out publicly in support of the Nicolau award. The East MEC is living up to it's long-time reputation of being the scum of the industry.

arbitration transcripts

 

[Mr Furlough]

The East MEC is living up to it's long-time reputation of being the scum of the industry.

arbitration transcripts

Yea, and you're the pride and joy of the industry.....

 

[exB717Flyer]

At what time did the MDA pilots agree to participate in the arbitration before Nicolau for the purpose of settling the dispute of their status as Mainline Active Pilots?

The APL MDA pilots were on the AAA main list so they were in Nicolau's purview by default. The CEL pilots (and BTW I disagreed with my MC's proposal to drop them off this list, yet it was consistant with the argument that MDA was not part of Mainline USAir) were essentially treated as flow-throughs.

The bottom line is that the MDA litigation will take years to grind through the system and neither ALPA nor the airline will be waiting. So frankly I'll worry about whatever effect it may have then.

For comparison, the DFR suit of the ex-TWA pilots is in year five of litigation and is only in the discovery (depositions) stage. Even if we "win" we know the APA-imposed seniority list won't be altered.