ALPA PHL LEC Update - June 23, 2007

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Oh my GOD you all think that Mr. Prather was concise. Are you crazy the only thing that a Scab wants to do is cover his Butt and hope that D.P. will save his ass. If that is what ALPA considers a Leader oh my! resurrect Jimmy Hoffa. He stood for shoot them up and put them out of their misery, not sit back and let them live on life support and make them think that I care. If anyone of you guys both East and West are not frightened by the Video, you all in the end deserve the Cancer that will take you over. If you guys at AW feel so smug, don't blink, all of you will get it one way or another.

Prater is not a scab.

 

[BajaBabe]

Well he looks and talks like someone who does not know which way to wipe.........get it

 

[flynomore]

Prater is not a scab.

===================================================
Do you know that for a fact? Please expound, if able.

I don't know so I can't say. Would working for NYAir make one? I guess it depends on who you ask. How about People Express? Same answer. Old Frontier or Frontier Horizon? Original Continental? Which years? Texas Air?

So many ways to slice it, but then the long view is alarmingly lacking around here of late. Good luck with that contract in the divided environment that has been created and stoked.

Cheers.

 

[AWA320]

The are REAL pilots and representating the will of their constituents.

ALPA National would just as soon see these guys disappear as they are thorns as far as ALPA is concerned.

The egregious Nicolau Award will never be implemented. ALPA NAtional will probably not overturn it, but you will never see the HP/US pilots flying as one group under the merged list.

The vocal minority is speaking again. I bet you won't get 1000 cards to remove ALPA. You had every chance in the world to handle this outside of arb and you wouldn't.

There is no earthly reason to discuss, debate, negotiate, or even entertain "solutions" to the perceived problems of the East! Their "problems" are self-inflicted, self-anointed, and most importantly....self-serving. They insisted....demanded binding arbitration. They were complete above any rational negotiation or debate on legitimate "solutions" FOR TWO FRIGGIN YEARS. The game ended on May 3. No extra innings, no overtime, and for once in their long history of cancerous dysfunction and self-service they will live with the results of their own arrogance.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Well he looks and talks like someone who does not know which way to wipe.........get it

Whatever, he is not a scab though.....get it?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Prater's official bio:

"Prater is a 28-year veteran of ALPA, having served extensively at all levels. From strike committee chairman to master chairman to vice chairman of the international alliance, Wings Alliance (now part of the Skyteam Alliance), Prater brings a wealth of experience. His background includes union fights against notorious airline management figures Frank Lorenzo, Carl Icahn, and Dick Ferris. Prater was furloughed from Continental Airlines, returning just 3 weeks prior to the bankruptcy in 1983. He became one of the pilot group’s leaders during the Association’s 25-month strike."

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

...he is not a scab though...

Well it was about time someone came up with something polite to say about him.

 

[N924PS]

The vocal minority is speaking again. I bet you won't get 1000 cards to remove ALPA. You had every chance in the world to handle this outside of arb and you wouldn't.

There is no earthly reason to discuss, debate, negotiate, or even entertain "solutions" to the perceived problems of the East! Their "problems" are self-inflicted, self-anointed, and most importantly....self-serving. They insisted....demanded binding arbitration. They were complete above any rational negotiation or debate on legitimate "solutions" FOR TWO FRIGGIN YEARS. The game ended on May 3. No extra innings, no overtime, and for once in their long history of cancerous dysfunction and self-service they will live with the results of their own arrogance.

I believe that even the pilots not adversely affected by the award have also had enough of ALPA National's "self serving" ways.

The game may in fact have ended on May 3, but a new one is about to begin. What the outcome may be is the question.

But one thing is for sure, as previously stated: HP/US pilots will never fly together as one pilot group. It is a shame that's what has come to, but unfortunately, it's the only way it can go owing to the Nicolau Award being so flawed.

Where was ALPA National when it came time to help the East Pilots protect/preserve their Defined Benefit Pensions? Duane Woerth was hoping USAirways would slide into the abyss of Chapter 7 and by doing so allow other legacy carriers to fluorish and retain their pensions. Didn't happen.

I feel confident that the East Pilots can muster the necessary votes and support to break from ALPA. And that is exactly what will and must happen when ALPA National goes for the political solution rather than do the right thing and tank the Nic Award.

 

[AWA320]

I feel confident that the East Pilots can muster the necessary votes and support to break from ALPA. And that is exactly what will and must happen when ALPA National goes for the political solution rather than do the right thing and tank the Nic Award.

Yup and they will finally get what was on the way prior to this arranged marriage, unemployed!! You see, not too many positions out there for a 50 something pilot that feels everyone on this earth owes him. Yes they just might get what you claim former ALPA pres DW was hoping for...

 

[autofixer]

I believe we got something like 1500 signatures to decertify, back in the early 90s; you know before AWA the guy senior to me was out of High-School. Who cares about being un-employed? They pay for training in other career fields and help find you a new job.

 

[Phoenix]

... Duane Woerth was hoping USAirways would slide into the abyss of Chapter 7 and by doing so allow other legacy carriers to fluorish and retain their pensions. Didn't happen....

I'm no fan of DW, but even he couldn't be igny-nor-ant enough to think that the business sharks would be satisfied with one bloody carcass once they got used to the tender new taste of labor sans penn-y-shuns.

 

[N924PS]

Yup and they will finally get what was on the way prior to this arranged marriage, unemployed!! You see, not too many positions out there for a 50 something pilot that feels everyone on this earth owes him. Yes they just might get what you claim former ALPA pres DW was hoping for...

AWA320

Maybe. But when you have been through a career like they have perhaps that is the better alternative than the one the Nic list provides.

I know the men and women you feel "everyone on this earth owes", and I must to you that your comment is wrong. They do not feel that way at all. They simply want what is rightfully theirs and has been stolen from them by George Nicolau's mistake.

Hopefully, as your career unfolds it will not hold as many awful twists and turns that put you in a hopeless situation for advancement, or even something to look forward to beyond a paycheck.

Look around. USAirways isn't exactly the benchmark for running a good airline. Enjoy it while you can because LCC will be the first to fail again during the next downturn. And that is inevitable in this industry.

The Nicolau Award will then become moot.

 

[Cactus737]

AWA320

Maybe. But when you have been through a career like they have perhaps that is the better alternative than the one the Nic list provides.

I know the men and women you feel "everyone on this earth owes", and I must to you that your comment is wrong. They do not feel that way at all. They simply want what is rightfully theirs and has been stolen from them by George Nicolau's mistake.

Hopefully, as your career unfolds it will not hold as many awful twists and turns that put you in a hopeless situation for advancement, or even something to look forward to beyond a paycheck.

Look around. USAirways isn't exactly the benchmark for running a good airline. Enjoy it while you can because LCC will be the first to fail again during the next downturn. And that is inevitable in this industry.

The Nicolau Award will then become moot.

Cute, but I don't think you understand what "their" attrition truly is. Most (by a large margin) of that attrition is in the bottom half of their list, including furloughees. It's of little value. Almost ALL of AWA's attrition is from the top of our list.

The Nicolau ruling was no mistake. The problem is that the East MEC hid the facts from their pilots, so the East pilots don't really understand how they didn't lose attrition.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320

Maybe. But when you have been through a career like they have perhaps that is the better alternative than the one the Nic list provides.

I know the men and women you feel "everyone on this earth owes", and I must to you that your comment is wrong. They do not feel that way at all. They simply want what is rightfully theirs and has been stolen from them by George Nicolau's mistake.

Hopefully, as your career unfolds it will not hold as many awful twists and turns that put you in a hopeless situation for advancement, or even something to look forward to beyond a paycheck.

Look around. USAirways isn't exactly the benchmark for running a good airline. Enjoy it while you can because LCC will be the first to fail again during the next downturn. And that is inevitable in this industry.

The Nicolau Award will then become moot.

This award was more than fair!! The problem facing you and them is your failure to understand the difference between longevity and seniority. I have stated this many times before. The 18yr AAA pilot was long on longevity but short on seniority. What you and they propose is that they be given a place on the new list based on longevity while AWA pilots with seniority be placed below them! AAA had no attrition and was certain not a maybe but for certain going chapter 7. One need only look at their furloughs 33% it was the highest in the industry of any carrier not already dead!!

Now if you read the award and I mean really read it you would see that the AAA pilots lost nothing. Without this arrangement they had no attrition and certain unemployment. With this merger came a new lease on a life that was for all intensive purposes dead!!!

 

[pilot]

Boeing Boy issued a wager that no one took. I didn't because it was a sucker bet. I have no way of knowing the political views of the EC or whether it is even legal to void the list. However, after 30 plus years I do know the U pilots. Especially the so called GAG (aka 320 and his boys) and the RC4 (my side). I personally know each guy ahead of me (about 50 or so) and a substantial number of guys below me (the ones who I've flown with and trained over the years).

So here's another wager offer. But only for active AWA pilots just to keep it fair. And this wager is aimed directly at you AWA320:

5 grand says that the East pilots vote for new union representation if the EC does not void the award. AND that the vote will succeed and result in ALPA no longer being the bargaining agent for the pilots of LCC. Put your money where your mouth is since you seem to have your finger on the U pilots pulse.

No arguing. No bravado. No more opinions. 5 grand in the form of a certified bank check we can both send to an agreed on 3rd party to hold until after the ballots are counted.

Let me know and get me your contact info. You seem to know more about the U pilot group than I do so this should be an easy bet for you.

And, by the way 924PS, EVERY pilot on each and every SENIORITY list in this country was adversely affected by this ruling. The sad part is that so many don't realize or understand why or how. Most have never even heard of Dave Behncke or Clancy Sayen. These proud men are spinning in their graves as we lose the profession they fought to build.

pilot