ALPA PHL LEC Update - June 23, 2007

[ClueByFour]

That should tell everybody something about the East pilot resolve.

That it melts away every time it's bluff is called?

East lacks the stones to burn it down, as the %57 prove on a regular basis.

 

[700UW]

I agree with you clue, they have no resolve cave everytime and have no backbone.

They don't realize it will take hundreds of thousands of dollars to start a campaign, and millions to actually have a independant union to start up.

They will fail like usual.

They cant admit they failed and take their lumps.

 

[Harry Callahan]

I agree with you clue, they have no resolve cave everytime and have no backbone.

They don't realize it will take hundreds of thousands of dollars to start a campaign, and millions to actually have a independant union to start up.

They will fail like usual.

They cant admit they failed and take their lumps.

Don't out about the rest but pilots do have money don't they ?

 

[700UW]

Well they are complaing they make less than the West and took higher paycuts than anyone else.

So who knows.

 

[ussnark]

The 18yr AAA pilot was long on longevity but short on seniority.

Huh?

Send me some of that dope you are smoking, boy.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

I could care less; I'm no big fan of ALPA either. But I can tell you one thing, I will never pay a dime of dues to any in-house union built by the east anarchists! Good luck with raising the millions you wil need to run any respectable Union.

Most of you east pilot posters/posers on this board are the biggest drama queens on the planet. Talking about the Nic list destroying our profession and making every dire prediction imaginable is sickening. If there is anything wrong with this profession it's because of your kind on this board.

If you're that miserable just get the F out of here, quit the company, quit the profession, and finally, quit on yourself because you guys have already proven to us and the rest of the world your word is worthless and your actions are despicable.

5 grand says that the East pilots vote for new union representation if the EC does not void the award. AND that the vote will succeed and result in ALPA no longer being the bargaining agent for the pilots of LCC. Put your money where your mouth is since you seem to have your finger on the U pilots pulse.

No arguing. No bravado. No more opinions. 5 grand in the form of a certified bank check we can both send to an agreed on 3rd party to hold until after the ballots are counted.

Let me know and get me your contact info. You seem to know more about the U pilot group than I do so this should be an easy bet for you.

And, by the way 924PS, EVERY pilot on each and every SENIORITY list in this country was adversely affected by this ruling. The sad part is that so many don't realize or understand why or how. Most have never even heard of Dave Behncke or Clancy Sayen. These proud men are spinning in their graves as we lose the profession they fought to build.

pilot

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

I guess you are not the smartest of the bunch now are you?

Q. How SENIOR is the bottom guy on your list?

A. About SENIOR enough to hold an FO position on the E190 right? However, his longevity entitles him to much more pay than say a new hire coming off the street and being placed right beneath him. The major difference here is LONGEVITY, but there is little difference in SENIORITY. SENIORITY determines your bidding position, rank, quality of life, etc. LONGEVITY determines your pay.

Huh?

Send me some of that dope you are smoking, boy.

 

[CactusFlyr]

Never mind the babble, they just had a Viagra overdose. :blink:

 

[Cactus737]

I could care less; I'm no big fan of ALPA either. But I can tell you one thing, I will never pay a dime of dues to any in-house union built by the east anarchists! Good luck with raising the millions you wil need to run any respectable Union.

Amen to that. Heck, if it were under other circumstances, the West guys would joing the decert effort.

Most of you east pilot posters/posers on this board are the biggest drama queens on the planet. Talking about the Nic list destroying our profession and making every dire prediction imaginable is sickening. If there is anything wrong with this profession it's because of your kind on this board.

If there was any truth to this "destroying the profession" baloney, the East would have other MEC's supporting them. They don't - not one. In fact, United and Northwest Merger Committees have made presentations to their pilots with an emphasis on the "value of negotiating".

I'm not going to go so far as to blame the sense of "entitlement" on the woes of the airline industry. Actually, that sense of entitlement comes from the East having things so good for so long - something the AWA pilots don't understand because we never had it. The industry woes were caused by a combination of deregulation, redistribution of wealth, and bad management. That's why there are 20 year junior FO's on the East - not because of Nicolau.

If you're that miserable just get the F out of here, quit the company, quit the profession, and finally, quit on yourself because you guys have already proven to us and the rest of the world your word is worthless and your actions are despicable.

Some have done that - including the AAA EVP who resigned not long after the merger was announced. He saw the writing on the wall with the list - and the irresponsible MEC. Too bad the rest of the AAA line pilots weren't as informed as JF was.

 

[Phoenix]

Are you sure you aren't related to 320?

...

Most of you east pilot posters/posers on this board are the biggest drama queens on the planet. Talking about the Nic list destroying our profession and making every dire prediction imaginable is sickening. If there is anything wrong with this profession it's because of your kind on this board.

If you're that miserable just get the F out of here, quit the company, quit the profession, and finally, quit on yourself because you guys have already proven to us and the rest of the world your word is worthless and your actions are despicable.

 

[AWA320]

Huh?

Send me some of that dope you are smoking, boy.

Let me break it down for you nark so you won't need any dope!!

AAA's list, a pilot with 18yrs with the company on the date the merger was announced was where??? He/she was either at the very bottom of the list or furloughed! There was no hiring at AAA at the time and the very real threat of liquidation. In order to move up the AAA list said pilot needed SENIORITY which he obviously didn't have even with 18yrs. Now enter the merger said pilot is still on the bottom of the AAA list or furloughed. So said pilot has longetivity (18yrs) but no seniority. I'll go just a little deeper for you. The 18yr pilot if not furloughed had how many pilots below him on the AAA list???? If he had five pilots below him then his rightful place on a combined list is to be place next to the guy on the west with five people below him.

What you and your fellow east pilots propose is that you be placed on the new combined list ahead of pilots on the west that had seniority on the AWA list. This is called DATE OF HIRE which is not part of the merger policy!!!Movement, retirement and hiring resulted in the west pilot moving up in seniority where the direct opposite was true in the east. You follow so far or do you require remedial??

Pay and benefits are all you and your fellow east brethern deserve for your LONGETIVITY. Educate yourself Nark, read, understand and absorb the award and you will see that it's completely fair.

 

[ussnark]

Educate yourself Nark, read, understand and absorb the award and you will see that it's completely fair.

I don't think I ever said the "award" was unfair or fair. "fair" is not relevant, never has been and never will be.

I did say, on more than one occasion, that it does violate ALPA Merger Policy.

I still want some of that dope you are smokin'.

 

[javaboy]

Let me break it down for you nark so you won't need any dope!!

AAA's list, a pilot with 18yrs with the company on the date the merger was announced was where??? He/she was either at the very bottom of the list or furloughed! There was no hiring at AAA at the time and the very real threat of liquidation. In order to move up the AAA list said pilot needed SENIORITY which he obviously didn't have even with 18yrs. Now enter the merger said pilot is still on the bottom of the AAA list or furloughed. So said pilot has longetivity (18yrs) but no seniority. I'll go just a little deeper for you. The 18yr pilot if not furloughed had how many pilots below him on the AAA list???? If he had five pilots below him then his rightful place on a combined list is to be place next to the guy on the west with five people below him.

What you and your fellow east pilots propose is that you be placed on the new combined list ahead of pilots on the west that had seniority on the AWA list. This is called DATE OF HIRE which is not part of the merger policy!!!Movement, retirement and hiring resulted in the west pilot moving up in seniority where the direct opposite was true in the east. You follow so far or do you require remedial??

Pay and benefits are all you and your fellow east brethern deserve for your LONGETIVITY. Educate yourself Nark, read, understand and absorb the award and you will see that it's completely fair.

here's more education...in the next serveral years the majority of retirements will come from the US side not the AWA side, those slots should go to the US pilots WHO HAVE WAITED 18+ years (as you put it) for those slots. likewise on the AWA side with virtually NO airplanes ordered (US had large Airbus order) those AWA pilots hired post 2000 were looking at the same stagnation the US pilots endured throughout the 1990s. With very little retirements and almost no airplanes on order with, the history of the ATSB loans being rejected mutliple times and no banke offering AWA money (yet US had money not only from Al pension funds, but some 5 billion in wall street money lined up) the surviving airline seemed to favor the US rather than the AWA corporatation. So, with AWA almost fully staffed, and little airplanes on order and no growth pending per se (would never have gone int'l, gave up on HI in the 90s) those most recently hired were not going to become 5 year capts but rather sit in the right seat for a prolonged period of time.


i would submit this as a possible compromise
1. give the AWA the list as published (with fences)
2. give the US side DOH (with fences)
3. Every US retirement will be replaced by US pilot
4. Every AWA retirement will be replaced by AWA pilot
6. using 5-7 year fences, most(like above 85%) most US pilots will retire (assuming 60) at that rate the US pilots will not be able to replace us pilots (at which the fence begins to come down at the end of the 7 years the list as published will in effect be in effect meaning that 1. awa got the list, 2. us got doh 3. us f/os got to upgrade and recoup for a short time decades of stagnation (paywise) 4. no AWA f/o would be hindered (assuming the airlines were never put together they would upgrade as they were scheduled to (awa retirements). in 10 years it wont matter. however should the company face continued fiscal strain (who knows what is in store for the US economy, interest rates, sub prime market, fuel costs ect)

well just one possible solution, one thing is for certain no company can continue to sustain continued losses for very long, and big money backing this company wont stand around for long watching it happen again. this needs to be put behind it before the company can move forward at all.

 

[USA320Pilot]

With the process that is underway and events that will unfold in the very near future, I believe the AWA pilots and their desires will become irrelevant.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

Do you still believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy too?