ALPA T/A?

[737nCH11]

Could not get to ALPA Road Show, but I have looked at the PowerPoint presentation on the ALPA website. I had a couple of questions for anybody that attended:

1. Are the entire Airbus and 737 fleets going to be used for the LCO?

2. Was anything said about the number of days off per month with the LCO. I saw in the proposal 10 in a 30 day month and 11 in a 31 day month, but I sincerely hope that this was the minimum. Are all lines going to be scheduled with 10 or 11 days off?

Any other interesting info you could pass along would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[767jetz]

I''m going to the council 52 meeting tomorrow. I''ll let you know if I can get an answer. I have heard from others who have attended road shows that it won''t matter if you fly the Airbus or 737 on mainline or LCO. All LCO pay and work rules apply to those fleets regardless. The only difference you''ll know is if there''s a first class cabin or not. (and the 10 days off!)

 

[737nCH11]

767jetz,

What was the overall mood at the meeting (especially with the narrowbody guys)?
Did PW have anything to say about a recovery with the war in Iraq hopefully coming to a close?

thanks

 

[Borescope]

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On 4/9/2003 2:25:48 PM 767jetz wrote:

alot could happen in 2 years and things could start to recover by then.

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or we could liquidate.

Bore

 

[767jetz]

According to the Road Show:

- LCO min days off are 10/11 for 30/31 day months respectively.
- 737/A320 fleets are the LCO. Doesn't matter what color they are, what UA calls it, how it's marketed, how many seats it holds, etc.
-70 seat RJ's allowed at Express, but first must negotiate the hiring of furloughees at the express carrier.
- Line holder guarantee is 65/ Reserve is 70.
- LCO cap is 95 hrs.
- According to PW, it could take up to 18+ months to fully implement all the work rule changes. They will not lop off 1000 pilots in one shot. His WAG based on time and retirments was 700 within the next 18-24 months. He also sounded like this was a worst case WAG, because alot could happen in 2 years and things could start to recover by then.

 

[767jetz]

Well, there wasn''t a huge turn out for this meeting. I think everyone was basically just taking in the info, so it was hard to gauge the mood. Plus JFK is predominantly a wide body base. The 320 base is very small here.

I had to leave before the Q&A portion started, but I will be talking to a friend who stayed, and get an update on the remainder of the meeting from him. I''l be sure to pass anlong anything interesting.

The presentation was almost exactly what''s posted on the ALPA web site. The mood of the presentation was that any concessionary deal is hard to swallow, but we were able to save some important parts and minimize the damage. It''s a better deal than what the judge would have given and WAY better than what the company wanted. We will live to fight another day, and ALPA is already looking toward 2009 when we can start repairing our contract.

 

[michael707767]

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On 4/9/2003 2:40:25 PM Borescope wrote:

or we could liquidate.

Bore

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UAL will not liquidate. Worst case they may sell some assets to get past the next few months, but they will not liquidate.

 

[Falco]

UAL will not sell some assets to get by the next few months. The DIP financers own all the unmortgaged assets. Either UAL will meet the DIP goals, or they will liquidate. I think it is clear that UAL will not meet these goals. The only other chance is a renogotiation of the terms. This is only possible if Tilton can convince the DIP''s that with the union agreements in place can fix United. Would you buy this argument. 75-25 that UAL liquidates.

 

[737nCH11]

Falco,
This thread was intended to find out about the ALPA T/A, not about whether UAL will liquidate (which they will not). Kindly go peddle your crap on the US Air board.

 

[herkav8r]

Just want to add my two cents. The T/A also states the company can fly any aircaft that carries the same max capacity as an A320 and pay the same rate as the guppy. FYI,. the 757 carries 178 I think and the max certified seating capacity in single class config for the bus is 179. Interesting, isn''t it. By the way, I voted yes and will be geting furloughed if the numbers go to 700.

 

[767jetz]

One more thing from the road show.

PW said that there is one board member who keeps using the "L" word, and this is what keeps leaking out to the media. It is unfounded. This board member is a real "a$$ h*l*." (PW''s exact words, not mine) Paul has even threatened to file a law suit against him if he continues.

He seems to think that when all is said and done, the senior management will see some more big changes. Tilton is much smarter than some give him credit for. When the dirty work is done, certain individuals who are still around from long ago will probably be gone. The board of directors will probably also be COMPLETELY new.

According to PW, if the company gets agreements from all unions and no other significant events occur (ie: 9/11), then there is a ZERO % chance of liquidation

 

[Taipan]

April 10, 2003

District 141 Officers Endorse Recovery Accords

After a 7-hour meeting to hear the terms and circumstances surrounding the tentative agreement reached between the IAM and United Airlines, members of the District 141 Executive Board voted unanimously to support ratification of the recovery accord.

“There are two ways United Airlines can exit bankruptcy – intact or in pieces,†said District President Randy Canale. “Our choice may seem difficult, but the prospect of United liquidating and 70,000 jobs being permanently lost is what’s at stake here.â€

The Negotiating Committee explained how the company’s initial proposal contained terms far worse than what members will vote on later this month. “The Company wanted employees at 18 stations converted to a new classification with low wages, no work rules or pensions,†said Canale.

The company also sought unsuccessfully to contract out all Ramp work; eliminate paid occupational injury leave; reduce vacations; terminate the current defined benefit pension plan and eliminate all limitations on the company’s right to contract-out any PCE work.

After hearing from the union’s attorneys, legal and economic advisors, the district leadership determined it is absolutely necessary to support ratification of this proposal to ensure the company’s survival and prevent a far worse outcome for members and their families.

Randy Canale
President & Directing General Chairman


I cant seem to find anything in the T/A for CSRs about the so called, or shall I say now called LCO (operation) and this above seems to say that it is not happening ?

 

[Segue]

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On 4/11/2003 2:42:27 PM N230UA wrote:

My picks:

Sara Fields -- GONE
Jake Brace -- given a huge kick in the arse with a big, steel-toed boot
Hobgood -- hobGOOD riddance
Montie Brewer -- can go brew beer at a factory

A Keeper:

Peter McDonald

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Montie is at Air Canada....left a long time ago.

 

[N230UA]

My picks:

Sara Fields -- GONE
Jake Brace -- given a huge kick in the arse with a big, steel-toed boot
Hobgood -- hobGOOD riddance
Montie Brewer -- can go brew beer at a factory

A Keeper:

Peter McDonald

 

[N230UA]

Well then an anachronistic suggestion on my part!