American Airbuses to Hawaii ?

[mistified]

It is reported that American plans to using narrow body Airbuses (321) to the islands from LAX starting in August.
If true I believe they will be the first to do this (narrow body airbuses across the pacific). It will be interesting to see how it works out. Right now they are using the 757 while other competitors are using the 757 and some the 737. 
 
misrified

 

[MetalMover]

It is reported that American plans to using narrow body Airbuses (321) to the islands from LAX starting in August.
If true I believe they will be the first to do this (narrow body airbuses across the pacific). It will be interesting to see how it works out. Right now they are using the 757 while other competitors are using the 757 and some the 737. 
 
misrified

That's the plan. I don;t see any issues with it. the aircraft doesn't know whether or not it's flying over water. But they will not be configured  like the transcon A321T's

 

[FWAAA]

Someone posted a while back that AA was planning to use current-generation A321s to Hawai'i, and I wrongly said "No, AA might use the A321neo when it arrives in 2-3 years, like HA plans to do, but no way will they attempt it with A321ceos." Some have said that the sharklets on the wings of today's new A321s add enough range to make it feasible even without waiting for the neos. Still, I'll believe it when I see it.

If they're configured with AA's standard 181 seats and the flight goes out full, with all those vacation-heavy checked bags, I see some turnarounds in AA's future. No pilot is going to push forward once they believe there's a real chance of running out of gas before they make landfall.

 

[IORFA]

That's the plan. They stated 3Q this year. I still don't believe it will make it fully loaded on the planes loaded with in seat video. If is was such a good idea, why is no one else doing it? Besides the fact Hawaiian purposely didn't NOT order these models. Which would have come cheaper AND faster than the NEO's. Time will tell.

 

[Overspeed]

Take a look in the MCM. The ETOPS cards are in the manual plus the 321 is flying MIA - LAX which is about 2100 NM and LAX HNL is 2200 NM and the 321 range with sharklets is 3200 NM. I've heard the FAA hold up was the shorter runways at KOA and LIH and the winter winds where a flight that is normally 5.4 FH can take 6.0. It sounds reasonable that the plane could be weight restricted under some high head wind flights.

 

[WorldTraveler]

beyond the argument about the 320 family can and cannot do, UA is using 739ERs to increase frequency and operate at a CASM advantage and AA likely feels a need to match that.

The irony is that UA seems to be recognizing the limits of its longhaul narrowbody strategies, many of which cam e from CO, in retaining 763ERs for the Atlantic and shifting 757s to longhaul domestic flying. For Dec 2015 schedules, UA is showing 738s but not 739s on LAX-HNL.

although DL said the 739ER could fly any route on its N. American system when it was ordered, DL's strategy is to keep the 757s but increase their domestic seating to 199 which offsets some of the cost disadvantage of the 757 while retaining the range.

If the AA 321s end up taking payload restrictions while UA ends up shifting routes back to 757s esp. in the winter or having to make fuel stops, AA will have gained little.

 

[eolesen]

Virgin America announced 320-with-sharklet service over a month ago, starting in November.

AA might be the first to fly it, but VX was the first to announce it. That matters, right?... ;p

 

[Kev3188]

*Snort

 

[mistified]

I guessing that someone smarter than me at the airline has determined that the cost savings from fuel will more than offset any payload restrictions?
From a passenger standpoint the wider & newer cabin interiors of the airbus may be an improvement over the narrower 737's and 757's ?
 

 

[mistified]

Im guessing that someone smarter than me at the airline has determined that the cost savings from fuel will more than offset any payload restrictions?
From a passenger standpoint the wider & newer cabin interiors of the airbus may be an improvement over the narrower 737's and 757's ?
 

 

[jimntx]

Of course, the gold standard for determining if this is a good idea is "Has Delta announced using the A321 from LAX to Hawaii."  If not, AA is doomed to failure on this foolhardy application of inadequate a/c.

 

[WorldTraveler]

that's a pretty heavy ball you spend your life dragging around.

all of the advantages of the wider cabin don't mean anything if the plane can't get there, or has been noted, payload restrictions are required in order to get there.

I don't know the answer to that question and maybe the current engine 321s can make it.

The 737 series may be less spacious but it has been used on mainland to Hawaii flights for a number of years - sometimes with issues but the majority of the time not.

maybe the 321 has had it in her and no one has bothered to try but surely some people can accept that being a pioneer in crossing a 2500 stretch of water with no alternate runways does raise the question of why no one else has bothered to do it before.

 

[Kev3188]

Of course, the gold standard for determining if this is a good idea is "Has Delta announced using the A321 from LAX to Hawaii."  If not, AA is doomed to failure on this foolhardy application of inadequate a/c.

Why haven't you all just welded the doors shut already?!

(Sarcasm, of course)

 

[WorldTraveler]

because not everyone subscribes to a childish mindset that it is more mature to ignore someone than just to engage them.

and again, there is nothing that I have said in this thread that AA people haven't said other than to note the competitive aspects - UA is pulling 757s off of the Atlantic in order to deploy them in North and Latin America and DL has so far not put 737s on Hawaii routes in part because DL is retaining their 757s and adding seats to them to bring the CASM down.

if you, jim, or anyone else can't handle competing concepts regardless of whether it is about access to DAL, fleet philosophies, or labor issues, then you have no business participating in any type of open online forum.

and the proof of how childish your approach is that you can't really walk away. Just like Q and others, you have to come back for one more swing when you can get it in. You haven't ignored anyone. You are simply putting up a wall with a hole in it the size of your little finger thru which you refuse to admit that I was right about yet one more thing - that DL people wouldn't further unionize and now 6 years after the merger and 6 years after when I told you that DL's largest employee groups would remain non-union, there is yet one more defeat for organized labor.

and it also highlights that you and others really are not the open minded people that you try to make us think you are if you can't handle a dissenting opinion.

AA might or might not have operational issues using 321s to/from Hawaii. I'm not making that prediction.

I am asking the question as to why other carriers have not used the current generation A320 family to/from Hawaii if it is as capable of operating the routes as some people want to make us believe they are.

maybe they are and maybe all the concern is not justified. but the 737 was greeted with some of the same concern when it started to be used for mainland - Hawaii flights, there have been some operational issues with them, and some carriers are not choosing to use 737 or 320 family aircraft to/from Hawaii.

if you or anyone else can't participate in a discussion with someone that doesn't share your opinions, then this really is not the place for you. However, I'd like to believe that you, jim, and a whole lot of other people can indeed live in a world of dissenting opinions or, if you can't, genuinely and fully walk away.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Whats the flight time in hours, during the worst time of the year..(winds blowing toward the US maineland) ?
 
I was NEVER a fan of Etops, but I've moderated a bit as it pertains to BOS/NYC/PHL to LHR...only because there is usually a "strip of Ice R/w" nearby in greenland somewhere.
 
B U T.......there ain't shiit (to land) in between LAX and HNL.   Nada / zip / NOWHERE !
 
NEVER say NEVER that two engines can't quit on a two engine A/C.  I'm not advocating bringing the DC-10 back, but sooner or later, these money hungry bas-tards (companys) are going to push the envelope until a trip crashes into the sea !!