American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[CremaDiLimone]

"Mark my words" you words are meaningless here, I have come to an affinity, let this go to sections 6, because I will enjoy getting the same offer seeing the reaction on all the faces of the LUS when health, catering and maybe a few other goodies are ripped from their collective white knuckled death grip. I do have to place some blame on the TWU also, because they are also withholding the truth also. Not disclosing that the two sides are at a impasse, and a few other things.

bob, you wanted to take company's 1st bull$hit proposal....24 cent raise on DOS. so, where did the company find more $$ to give us?

unless, the company has been stalling and f*cking around?? give this stuff and package it to the assoc., not us. what can we do with this info anyways? put pressure on the assoc.? is that what the company wants?

how come the company didn't have $31.9whatever/hr on DOS ready to go 6 months ago? 2 months ago? now, they have it?

these guys are laughing at all of us on the golf course.

 

[AANOTOK]

P Rez,

The NC's job is to get the best possible deal they can for the majority of the members. Your job also should be to give the members something to vote on with or without a recommendation. And a very critical part of the unions or Association job is to educate educate educate the members about the proposals that sits before them so when they check yes or no it falls squarely on their shoulders. I don't care how many times you deny it, with this unique situation we are in with this Association, it's only natural there be some disagreement between the IAM and the TWU. One side will feel it got screwed in some things, and the other side will feel the same way.

I personally would rather have something voted down and be to blame, then sit around for a few years and get something only as good or probably worse in section 6.

 

[lax]

i'm willing to listen to your arguments, with actual numbers. i've asked how much is our current package worth/recent 1st package & now 2nd package offered by company/money aa will save by imposing laa insurance on lus. if you're correct, the numbers will embarrass the company and those who are arguing with you right now...including some that wanted to take the company's first propaganda proposal.

i'm not arrogant enough to believe you have to respond to me, but, when laa posters see you battle tim nelson over iam history or talk about america west days, you're tuning out laa posters when you don't talk about actual numbers.

the company threw protocol out the window by bypassing you and coming straight to me. you need to embarrass the company with numbers. if the company saves $60 million over 4 years by imposing laa insurance on lus, where is aa making up much of that difference? if they are not, you need to spell it out.

if not, you'll get more and more criticism (rightly or wrongly) for monkeying up the works.

i'm willing to listen to your arguments, with actual numbers. i've asked how much is our current package worth/recent 1st package & now 2nd package offered by company/money aa will save by imposing laa insurance on lus. if you're correct, the numbers will embarrass the company and those who are arguing with you right now...including some that wanted to take the company's first propaganda proposal.

i'm not arrogant enough to believe you have to respond to me, but, when laa posters see you battle tim nelson over iam history or talk about america west days, you're tuning out laa posters when you don't talk about actual numbers.

the company threw protocol out the window by bypassing you and coming straight to me. you need to embarrass the company with numbers. if the company saves $60 million over 4 years by imposing laa insurance on lus, where is aa making up much of that difference? if they are not, you need to spell it out.

if not, you'll get more and more criticism (rightly or wrongly) for monkeying up the works.

don't waste your time crema. this guy can barely spell his own name let alone do high level math. I firmly believe he's more interested in all-you-can-eat steak and lap dances on our dime than representing us. This IAM infection has presented itself as a perfect storm for the company to make subpar offerings through Jetnet to the membership...and yes laugh themselves into a mulligan at our expense

 

[pjirish317]

Weasel wth do you care? If you love the IAM so much go pull their pants down and go to work, if you haven't already. Matter fact, transfer to clt and go work for damn usair. I can admit that you bring out some good points from time to time but the reality is that you are a damn traitor and could care less about your own guys. This merger hasn't done chit for LAA because these clowns like rez and cb and whoever else are making decisions they have no business making. Then you show up cheerleading them on like you at the damn yankees game. They are all IGMers and don't give 2 chits about you or anything AA. so the first chance I get to vote rez and his posse off the island i'm going to do it with pleasure. their catering, their medical and whatever else will go up in smoke because none of them ever felt any remorse for holding AAers hostage. to hell with em'...cant wait to see rez actually lifting a damn bag for a change lol, cuz he has no business negotiating anything for anyone!

lax,

I would like to know how LUS folks are holding AAers hostage?

 

[Rusty Hilock]

Here we are again at AA . Another Memorial Day HOLIDAY will come and go while we have a regular work day.

Here's the way I've seen the JCBA negotiations for the last 2 + years.

2 different horses hitched to the same wagon PULLING IN 2 DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

The IAM pulling towards Healthcare and Retirement and the TWU pulling towards SCOPE.
This is why the JCBA wagon is stuck in the mud.
The Company got tired of a dealing with a group that can't even get their wagon out of the mud and decided to drive around them and go DIRECTLY to the membership.

The secrecy by " The ASSOCIATION" has bred even more MISTRUST within the ranks.


I can tell you that the Majority of TWU members HATE being FORCED into the Association by the
AFL-CIO. We wanted a NMB Election to choose our representation after the merger.

JCBA= VOTE YES AND VOTE OFTEN

 

[Rogallo]

HAD ENOUGH YET?

 

[ATD]

If you guys think the Company did this on their own. You do not know your representation.
Sito and Alex have had their behind the closed door meeting with Parker and Isom, this is the result.
They have not included the negotiating committee, but will tell them that this will need to be put out for vote and let the members decide.
A vote no will give us more leverage. (knowing very well this will pass with flying colors on AA side).

HAD ENOUGH YET.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

This is going to be like '95 all over again.

A POS contract voted in,sweeping job losses and no one will admit to voting yes, especially the folks in the orange vests who have been here since Monday morning. Although in all fairness they won't be here after they eagerly vote themselves out of a job.

"Where's my money yo?" say the two year commandos who have "Put their time in" and "Want to get paid".

"Where's the hook?" is the question people need to be asking.All these people hired after 2011 have no idea of what we have gone through here,they're just willing to chase dollar signs right out the door.

Again, I would advise my coworkers to strictly adhere to all published company policies and procedures when on the property

 

[CremaDiLimone]

This is going to be like '95 all over again.

that's what i fear. a wasted contract, another wasted 5 years, on top of the wasted years of 2003-til now.

now, it's oil. the same oil that has gone down $3-$4 a barrel the past 4 days.

in 1995, crandall never said we'd never lose money again or tell anyone who would listen that aa will earn $5 billion a year. we have some fscs who wanted to accept aa's first farcical proposal.

i agree about the orange vests, but i wouldn't want to pay for their security blanket by getting less compensation.

 

[NYer]

...give this stuff and package it to the assoc., not us. what can we do with this info anyways? put pressure on the assoc.? is that what the company wants?

how come the company didn't have $31.9whatever/hr on DOS ready to go 6 months ago? 2 months ago? now, they have it?

these guys are laughing at all of us on the golf course.

--Put pressure? Yes
--Is that what company wants? Yes
--How come they didn't have 6 months ago? 2 months? If you remember some of us were saying the comprehensive counter-proposal would be presented, it was. We said the initial information company shared would be enhanced, it was. Now comes the next moves on their part. Yesterday, they sweetened the pot a little more and it has some calling for a vote, others looking for more details and others not wanting anything to with it. Next step will be for the official proposal from the company to be a little better than yesterday's announcements and it may be deemed the last offer or some similar type of terminology.

At that point, what does the Association do? Put it out with a probable no recommendation or we go to Section 6.

 

[NYer]

that's what i fear. a wasted contract, another wasted 5 years, on top of the wasted years of 2003-til now.

now, it's oil. the same oil that has gone down $3-$4 a barrel the past 4 days.

in 1995, crandall never said we'd never lose money again or tell anyone who would listen that aa will earn $5 billion a year. we have some fscs who wanted to accept aa's first farcical proposal.

i agree about the orange vests, but i wouldn't want to pay for their security blanket by getting less compensation.

It seems the frustration and the calls for a vote come from the unfortunate reality that this process didn't come with more substantive information. That lack of information and requests for "trust us" these proposals are garbage only to have the airline release information that for some may feel are not so garbage (mostly because there is a lack of details in important language) has put us in a tight position.

Instead of getting everyone on the same page from the beginning, the Association is trying to play catch up because the airline released information that the Members weren't expecting.

If there is something put out for a vote, it may very well fail with historic numbers, and maybe it should, because of its content but this process has taken so long with just generic information that Members are starved to see what's been behind the curtain all this time.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

don't waste your time crema. this guy can barely spell his own name let alone do high level math. I firmly believe he's more interested in all-you-can-eat steak and lap dances on our dime than representing us. This IAM infection has presented itself as a perfect storm for the company to make subpar offerings through Jetnet to the membership...and yes laugh themselves into a mulligan at our expense

lax, i've given this person the benefit of the doubt. i actually sympathize with union negotiators doing their job with huge corporations in 2018. i also sympathize with the fact that this guy will get crucified by lus members if he makes any comments that he is willing to give up their insurance. even a horse trade is not possible, he'll get a donkey back in return from a 2018 corporation. mitt robme proudly boasted that "corporations are people too", and they certainly wrote the law and are taking advantage of it.

i realize that i'm not privy to the actual negotiations, but aa has thrown protocol out the window and cheapened the process by coming directly at us. to me, this should compel the assoc. to give us actual numbers, to combat the company's obvious PR moves.

 

[Rusty Hilock]

"This is going to be like '95 all over again.
POS contract voted in,sweeping job losses and no one will admit to voting yes, especially the folks in the orange vests who have been here since Monday morning. Although in all fairness they won't be here after they eagerly vote themselves out of a job."

I'm calling BS on this one. The TWU Title I work group GREW IN SIZE after the 1995 Contract. Look at the Title I Seniority List and see how many pages of 1995-1997 DOH.
The TWU Numbers actually grew in size until 2002 when they peaked.

2003 Concessions is when the train wreck started for LAA TWU MEMBERS.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

--Put pressure? Yes
--Is that what company wants? Yes
--How come they didn't have 6 months ago? 2 months? If you remember some of us were saying the comprehensive counter-proposal would be presented, it was. We said the initial information company shared would be enhanced, it was. Now comes the next moves on their part. Yesterday, they sweetened the pot a little more and it has some calling for a vote, others looking for more details and others not wanting anything to with it. Next step will be for the official proposal from the company to be a little better than yesterday's announcements and it may be deemed the last offer or some similar type of terminology.

At that point, what does the Association do? Put it out with a probable no recommendation or we go to Section 6.

the pot sweetening was no surprise. i do hope your flow-chart is correct in that the company may/will sweeten it just a bit more. i'll take another .50 cents/hr on DOS, lavs & water as contractual work and rearrange the signing bonus distribution.

if the company holds firm on the signing bonus because they want to buy the new-hire vote, i wouldn't make that issue a deal-breaker for me.

if the company does sweeten the proposal and we end up in mediation, the assoc. is looking at a mutiny, especially when laa guys will blame the lus insurance issue/iampf issues as being the reasons for section 6.

that's already happening now.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

"This is going to be like '95 all over again.
POS contract voted in,sweeping job losses and no one will admit to voting yes, especially the folks in the orange vests who have been here since Monday morning. Although in all fairness they won't be here after they eagerly vote themselves out of a job."

I'm calling BS on this one. The TWU Title I work group GREW IN SIZE after the 1995 Contract. Look at the Title I Seniority List and see how many pages of 1995-1997 DOH.
The TWU Numbers actually grew in size until 2002 when they peaked.

2003 Concessions is when the train wreck started for LAA TWU MEMBERS.

1995 has been brought up because that was the contract that aa argued backward..bush recession and gulf war. aa proved they knew their history and recent events of early 1990s, but they had one eye on the future and they knew it was very good.

fleet service got a whopping $1.something over 5 years, we lost 1 week vc and gave the company junior fleet service.

wasted 5 years.

in the summer of 2001, aa was willing to push TOS nearly $5/hr. for the next contract. well, what about 1995? let's not make 2018 like 1995.