American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Deleted member 14439]

ORGAC is 100% correct! Anyone that is advocating for the circumvention of the Negotiations Team is NOT supporting the democratic process...
They are supporting the DIVIDE AND CONQUER strategy set forth to pit the two combined groups, and their representation leadership AGAIST each other...

Statements like "Let's bring this thing to a vote" are exactly what the Company wants. This speaks volumes about the poster, and their motives!

>SPIT<

"Democratic process"? Like the one that forced the association down our throats?

 

[AANOTOK]

What you are indicating is that the NC/Association can be bypassed, and that a little over 50% of the Membership can be BRIBED to accept an agreement that will eventually reduce headcount, and thus leverage in future negotiations...

The current dynamic with two groups that operated under entirely different cultures is a godsend to the Company. All they have to do is convince a little over 50% of the Membership to vote for an agreement that will not benefit the remaining portion.

Since LAA culture is large enough to accomplish this goal, all the Co. needs to do is to break-up any solidarity between the two. Once this is done -- BINGO, they get a cost neutral contract that will become cost positive as time progresses!

That is of course if Divide and Conquer prevails...

I could not have said the root cause of the problem is the Association any better.

 

[Racer X]

American did not create the division, they are only taking advantage of it. The division started from day one when the Association was announced as our representative. It has only gotten worse when it was obvious the Association wasn’t prepared for negotiations, started sending out generic updates and did not and has not responded to AA’s full court press. When members of the NC say section 6 is an absolute, maybe rose colored glasses are so dark they are blinding. Who has motives??

Who on NC said ABSOLUTE? I saw PREZ say in his opinion. Did someone else say it?

 

[AANOTOK]

Who on NC said ABSOLUTE? I saw PREZ say in his opinion. Did someone else say it?

I think we are both wrong, I don’t think it was absolute, but I do believe it was stronger than “opinion”. You get the idea though, but I will find it for you.

 

[AANOTOK]

Who on NC said ABSOLUTE? I saw PREZ say in his opinion. Did someone else say it?

I guess you can read it how you want. "Definitely" means sure, but you throw "IMO" at the end kinda of covers you.

"We are definitely headed to section 6 IMO. I do not see any reconciliation at this point. I hope I'm wrong but watching Parker and Isom leads me to believe we are headed for a long, drawn out, contentious section 6".

 

[WeAAsles]

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I could not have said the root cause of the problem is the Association any better.

aanotok, i'm of the belief that the company is at fault for the slow pace of negotiations, along with being unyielding and downright stingy (johnsen)..when the company has met with the 'executive', super-duper committee.

yes, the assoc. does sound and appears dysfunctional..but i'm not sure what significance that has right now? what can change right now? nothing?

we are legacy laa/twu and the way i understand the genesis of this....little is to blame for the assoc. the twu is at fault.

i appreciate the fact that prez and charlie brown post here, mostly for lus/iam consumption. imagine how they felt, prior to little's assoc. blessing?

"we're finished". the twu will win the election to represent all and our lus insurance and lus 'goodies' have no chance of surviving.

imagine their shock when the twu allowed the iam to be 50% of this? happiness? shock? ok, we're in and we are going to fight for 'our' members' insurance and 'goodies'. i wouldn't expect anything less.

if that is the hold-up/dysfunction, blame the twu.

the deed is done and i prefer to look forward and talk about issues that the assoc. and the company need to hammer out that will affect us...maybe for one contract, like you said for yourself, or the next 2-3 for me.

 

[WeAAsles]

They point is quite simple.... IAM voted their reps in and TWU voted their reps in...TOGETHER they make up the reps for the association. Whether you like it or not, that is the only point that matters NOW. And they have EVERY RIGHT to be there.

And each AGC and President has been tasked by their Memberships who voted them in to bring back a deal that they can find acceptable.

As I see it there are still unanswered issues for both sides that make accepting a deal yet unacceptable for Fleet.

The Part Time question.
Station Staffing and reopening lost cities.
Catering.
“When and where so directed” attached to SCOPE.
Medical costs for all Association Members.
A Cap on Medical cost rise.
IAMPF.

Not to mention the biggest unanswered issue of all.

Our Negotiators haven’t even received proposals for any of the “testers” the Company put out yet?

 

[WeAAsles]

aanotok, i'm of the belief that the company is at fault for the slow pace of negotiations, along with being unyielding and downright stingy (johnsen)..when the company has met with the 'executive', super-duper committee.

yes, the assoc. does sound and appears dysfunctional..but i'm not sure what significance that has right now? what can change right now? nothing?

we are legacy laa/twu and the way i understand the genesis of this....little is to blame for the assoc. the twu is at fault.

i appreciate the fact that prez and charlie brown post here, mostly for lus/iam consumption. imagine how they felt, prior to little's assoc. blessing?

"we're finished". the twu will win the election to represent all and our lus insurance and lus 'goodies' have no chance of surviving.

imagine their shock when the twu allowed the iam to be 50% of this? happiness? shock? ok, we're in and we are going to fight for 'our' members' insurance and 'goodies'. i wouldn't expect anything less.

if that is the hold-up/dysfunction, blame the twu.

the deed is done and i prefer to look forward and talk about issues that the assoc. and the company need to hammer out that will affect us...maybe for one contract, like you said for yourself, or the next 2-3 for me.

The only reason people (TWU side) really hate the Association is because without it they feel they could have taken any issues that the now former IAM Members had and squashed them like little Bugs.

They hate the fact that the so called minority get to have their voices both heard and counted in this process and it drives the Big Bullies just flat out nuts.

 

[AANOTOK]

aanotok, i'm of the belief that the company is at fault for the slow pace of negotiations, along with being unyielding and downright stingy (johnsen)..when the company has met with the 'executive', super-duper committee.

yes, the assoc. does sound and appears dysfunctional..but i'm not sure what significance that has right now? what can change right now? nothing?

we are legacy laa/twu and the way i understand the genesis of this....little is to blame for the assoc. the twu is at fault.

i appreciate the fact that prez and charlie brown post here, mostly for lus/iam consumption. imagine how they felt, prior to little's assoc. blessing?

"we're finished". the twu will win the election to represent all and our lus insurance and lus 'goodies' have no chance of surviving.

imagine their shock when the twu allowed the iam to be 50% of this? happiness? shock? ok, we're in and we are going to fight for 'our' members' insurance and 'goodies'. i wouldn't expect anything less.

if that is the hold-up/dysfunction, blame the twu.

the deed is done and i prefer to look forward and talk about issues that the assoc. and the company need to hammer out that will affect us...maybe for one contract, like you said for yourself, or the next 2-3 for me.

That's cool Crema, I have no problem with different opinions. I just happen to disagree to some extent and I have laid out my reasons why.

I don't need any visual effects because you disagree with me and I don't think you have any ulterior motives.
We all wan't the best contract possible for all. We just have differing opinions on how to get there. I too appreciate both PRez and CB. I even had somewhat of a question (more argument on my part) and answer session with CB.
In wrapping it up, he was very gracious, didn't take it as arguing at all, and appreciated that I cared. It's all good. Hopefully at the end of the day we will get that industry leader without too many concessions or section 6 having to be the decider.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

weaasles - well, my experience through the years is that most FSCs are either millionaires or tough guys. are you sure about being mean-spirited and want lus/iam guys to get squashed like bugs?

maybe there's a poster or two around here like that.

if i post how to detach lus insurance and get something back for it, does that make me a bug killer?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Hopefully at the end of the day we will get that industry leader without too many concessions or section 6 having to be the decider.

that's all the money right there.

'without too many concessions' because we know just how powerful a corporation is today and if aa really wants this or that, they will get it.

that's why i like to see posts get creative and maybe the company will bend here (wages) and there (401k) to get this (lus insurance).

 

[WeAAsles]

weaasles - well, my experience through the years is that most FSCs are either millionaires or tough guys. are you sure about being mean-spirited and want lus/iam guys to get squashed like bugs?

maybe there's a poster or two around here like that.

if i post how to detach lus insurance and get something back for it, does that make me a bug killer?

Crema I think in terms of Human Nature. I personally think it’s natural for our nature to want or need to feel superior to others. So yes I do believe there are far too many TWU members who would have no problem if they had been squashed like a bug.

There have been too many times that I hear from people not just on this page but on the Ramp and in Phone calls say how we outnumber them. They all get super pissed when I remind them that not under the Association agreement we don’t. That’s a complete 50/50 decision there.

I won’t judge you saying how the IAM guys can be torn and ripped from THEIR Medical plans or costs. I’m sure there’s been plenty of Conversations on the Medical made way above our heads already.

 

[Racer X]

I guess you can read it how you want. "Definitely" means sure, but you throw "IMO" at the end kinda of covers you.

"We are definitely headed to section 6 IMO. I do not see any reconciliation at this point. I hope I'm wrong but watching Parker and Isom leads me to believe we are headed for a long, drawn out, contentious section 6".

You are a standup man NOTOK

 

[Talos]

aanotok, i'm of the belief that the company is at fault for the slow pace of negotiations, along with being unyielding and downright stingy (johnsen)..when the company has met with the 'executive', super-duper committee.

yes, the assoc. does sound and appears dysfunctional..but i'm not sure what significance that has right now? what can change right now? nothing?

we are legacy laa/twu and the way i understand the genesis of this....little is to blame for the assoc. the twu is at fault.

i appreciate the fact that prez and charlie brown post here, mostly for lus/iam consumption. imagine how they felt, prior to little's assoc. blessing?

"we're finished". the twu will win the election to represent all and our lus insurance and lus 'goodies' have no chance of surviving.

imagine their shock when the twu allowed the iam to be 50% of this? happiness? shock? ok, we're in and we are going to fight for 'our' members' insurance and 'goodies'. i wouldn't expect anything less.

if that is the hold-up/dysfunction, blame the twu.

the deed is done and i prefer to look forward and talk about issues that the assoc. and the company need to hammer out that will affect us...maybe for one contract, like you said for yourself, or the next 2-3 for me.

It was a large error by the TWU to get in this Association. Unions are to look after the best interests of their members. The TWU did not. The Association was such an obvious negative for the TWU . How they agreed to it is astonishing. And no vote or say from the membership to boot. You can not blame the IAM for looking out for their members. You can blame the TWU for not.