American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

The IAM should've stepped aside, and US air guys should have lived under the TWU contract, good or bad. After all they got all of their seniority when they were merged. Then they would've had to live under the TWU contract. You guys have the same situation as far as seeing something to vote on we did with AMFA at SWA. There are 4 ALRs , the majority of them have to sign off on a T/A before it can be presented.

No the IAM should NOT have stepped aside. Just because a Government Law exists that would have allowed us to step on them doesn’t mean it would have been the right thing to do.

IAM has been at USAIR in Maintenance for 70 years. That’s a proud History. And I would have honestly hated to go IAM if it meant my TWU goes in the trash can just as much as I’m sure plenty of IAM guys feel the same way.

I HATE Bullies.

 

[737823]

The IAM should've stepped aside, and US air guys should have lived under the TWU contract, good or bad. After all they got all of their seniority when they were merged. Then they would've had to live under the TWU contract. You guys have the same situation as far as seeing something to vote on we did with AMFA at SWA. There are 4 ALRs , the majority of them have to sign off on a T/A before it can be presented.

Post. Of. The. Year.

Josh

 

[737823]

No the IAM should NOT have stepped aside. Just because a Government Law exists that would have allowed us to step on them doesn’t mean it would have been the right thing to do.

IAM has been at USAIR in Maintenance for 70 years. That’s a proud History. And I would have honestly hated to go IAM if it meant my TWU goes in the trash can just as much as I’m sure plenty of IAM guys feel the same way.

I HATE Bullies.

And now long were unions in place at Pan Am, Eastern, TWA?

The IAM has become a regressive bottom feeder organization that is destroying middle class airline industry jobs and replacing them with low wage, low benefit high turnover UGE and McGee jobs.

The TWU honored the process at HP and ultimately stepped aside and gave the IAM that round. The IAM stepped aside after TWA and left nAAtives with the mess.

And how long has now defunct IAM DL 140 and DL 143 been established? What about the old TWA local lodges?

Josh

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I think I misunderstood your meaning....
My apologies

no worries...2nd time you took me for a rah-rah - fook lus & the iam, laa guy.

i'm asking a question that might anger some. to me, it's a fair question, whether it's an easy or difficult question to answer.

bottom line, the discrepancies had to be eliminated in 2014 with your standalone. since they weren't, now the complications arise and have to be dealt with, only compounding other complications (aa's stinginess).

if those discrepancies were eliminated in 2014, i'd like to think the assoc. would have no other choice but to be pulling on the same end of the rope since dec. 2015.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

You are exactly right Racer...

Certain posters are attempting to narrow the picture to only the TWU perspective. With the Medical, Catering etc. on the LAA side, it's easy to utilize the Divide and Conquer strategy. Especially, since in the minds of the LAA workers, this is NOT a concession, since they don't currently have contractual provisions for these items.

When ALL members look at themselves as ONE group, the picture changes...
The LAA medical is a concession...
Loss of LUS Catering is a concession...

Now, we can't really blame the company for attempting this -- we can only blame ourselves for falling into the trap of being divided by an outside source!
The company is playing a numbers game, and it's simple -- All they need to do is convince a majority of the TWU/IAM aggregate.
Now, since the LAA/TWU is a larger majority, it gives them the leverage to attempt this...

Divide and Conquer...

>SPIT<

right..

the company is giving me secret overtime of 2 hrs. a day and a free plastic id holder to come here and divide.

i'm not trying to divide anyone. to you, anyone that questions anything, is a divider. anyone that asks if the assoc. has put a price tag on lus insurance or willing to consider any alternative for it, is worse than a divider.

believe me, there are plenty of laa guys who want a contract and don't care about lus insurance, let alone catering.

 

[B737 driver]

No the IAM should NOT have stepped aside. Just because a Government Law exists that would have allowed us to step on them doesn’t mean it would have been the right thing to do.

IAM has been at USAIR in Maintenance for 70 years. That’s a proud History. And I would have honestly hated to go IAM if it meant my TWU goes in the trash can just as much as I’m sure plenty of IAM guys feel the same way.

I HATE Bullies.

The IAM gained seniority on the American guys, why at the same time, not working with the TWU, to secure a contract weazz, that's wrong. If you guys hadn't gone bankrupt, and your contract was superior, they would've had no problem **** canning their IAM heritage!! 🙂

 

[PIEDMONT784]

We all will deal with the consequence of our decisions. The NC has to deal with the members if they decide to NOT bring it out. They will have to deal with their members if they decide To BRING it out and as you have said “ it falls short of expectations”. If that happens and it fails it is back to the drawing board with questions from the membership on why the NC would even try to get it ratified along with the accusations and abuse...both verbal and in posts on social media.
If it passes and it turns out to be an inferior deal..well we all know what that could lead to.
The members will have to deal with their decision on ratification also....either way it goes.
Time to put on the big boy pants.

Correct... and either way... Tim, and his band of digital buddies will blame the association and the leadership!

>SPIT<

 

[WeAAsles]

right..

the company is giving me secret overtime of 2 hrs. a day and a free plastic id holder to come here and divide.

i'm not trying to divide anyone. to you, anyone that questions anything, is a divider. anyone that asks if the assoc. has put a price tag on lus insurance or willing to consider any alternative for it, is worse than a divider.

believe me, there are plenty of laa guys who want a contract and don't care about lus insurance, let alone catering.

I just wrote this in a Facebook conversation but I’m only adding this here in this context of looking for solutions to the “possible” Medical dilemma that people have dreamed up in their minds and if at the end of the day COMPROMISE can be a solution.

This hypothetical is also taking into account the IAM PT currently pay double the rate of a FT even if they still pay less than we (TWU) currently pay I feel that disparity is dangerous and needs to go bye bye. So this is for all Association members equally.

80% Employee pays 7%

90%. Employee 14%

100%.Employee 19.4%

This is the IAM current that they contribute Employee percentage paid. Now suppose and of course this whether we like it or not is their decision to make.

80% Employee pays 14%

90% Employee pays 18%

100% Leave as is or discontinue if impacted by Cadillac Tax.

“””LAA pays 21% of the cost on all plans currently”””

And I’m still not of any notion that any pieces of our Contracts have any must have values assigned to them even if the Company (line) concern is other Groups will demand the same costs. The TWU/IAM Association has made it clear that they are not negotiating for any other groups and they shouldn’t be.

 

[cltrat]

right..



believe me, there are plenty of laa guys who want a contract and don't care about lus insurance, let alone catering.

This right here is why the IAM guys will never agree for it to go to a vote in anywhere near its present form.

Cream I have thought the same thing about what you said about compensation for us should the insurance go away, which of course I’m dead set against,but if it does examples you sited would be a starting point

 

[WeAAsles]

I just wrote this in a Facebook conversation but I’m only adding this here in this context of looking for solutions to the “possible” Medical dilemma that people have dreamed up in their minds and if at the end of the day COMPROMISE can be a solution.

This hypothetical is also taking into account the IAM PT currently pay double the rate of a FT even if they still pay less than we (TWU) currently pay I feel that disparity is dangerous and needs to go bye bye. So this is for all Association members equally.

80% Employee pays 7%

90%. Employee 14%

100%.Employee 19.4%

This is the IAM current that they contribute Employee percentage paid. Now suppose and of course this whether we like it or not is their decision to make.

80% Employee pays 14%

90% Employee pays 18%

100% Leave as is or discontinue if impacted by Cadillac Tax.

“””LAA pays 21% of the cost on all plans currently”””

And I’m still not of any notion that any pieces of our Contracts have any must have values assigned to them even if the Company (line) concern is other Groups will demand the same costs. The TWU/IAM Association has made it clear that they are not negotiating for any other groups and they shouldn’t be.

Now the reason why I put their 80 plan at 14% is because I think that is the comparable plan that people mostly chose in relation to our Standard plan which is now also the preferred LAA plan.

14% is splitting that Baby right straight down the middle.

I’d also honestly like to see the Association partner up with the Company in searching for and encouraging its members to find ways to lower costs for all of us. There should be joint initiatives to point out wellness, eating healthy, smoking cessation and exercise programs. They should also be aware and tamp down hard on Medical fraud (Those Hearing Aids come to mind)

At the very least I see no problem at all when one of those Wellness pamphlets comes in my mailbox I see an AA Logo on one side and an Association logo on the other.

 

[WeAAsles]

This right here is why the IAM guys will never agree for it to go to a vote in anywhere near its present form.

Cream I have thought the same thing about what you said about compensation for us should the insurance go away, which of course I’m dead set against,but if it does examples you sited would be a starting point

And the weirdest part is that anyone on the TWU side would expect you to. And I mean among the Rank and File. I’d like to hope TWU Leaders aren’t that stupid.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

This right here is why the IAM guys will never agree for it to go to a vote in anywhere near its present form.

Cream I have thought the same thing about what you said about compensation for us should the insurance go away, which of course I’m dead set against,but if it does examples you sited would be a starting point

right...i only asked if the iam assoc. negotiators would be out of line if they wanted only iam lus members to get 'compensated' for losing lus insurance.

i would understand that position. doesn't mean i agree or know if it's even feasible. even at the best, aa doesn't want a pure horse trade, $ for $...their stinginess hasn't gone unnoticed.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Now the reason why I put their 80 plan at 14% is because I think that is the comparable plan that people mostly chose in relation to our Standard plan which is now also the preferred LAA plan.

14% is splitting that Baby right straight down the middle.

I’d also honestly like to see the Association partner up with the Company in searching for and encouraging its members to find ways to lower costs for all of us. There should be joint initiatives to point out wellness, eating healthy, smoking cessation and exercise programs. They should also be aware and tamp down hard on Medical fraud (Those Hearing Aids come to mind)

At the very least I see no problem at all when one of those Wellness pamphlets comes in my mailbox I see an AA Logo on one side and an Association logo on the other.

good stuff, you're getting creative. let's hope the assoc. possesses the same creativity...

if it does happen this way, where will the company move the toggle switch? no 6%/5% 401k? no $32.50/hr on DOS?

 

[Racer X]

I think the question people should be asking is what is the chance that an arbitrator will carve out MX and Fleet with a Cadillac healthcare plan that no other company employee has? If the answer to that is slim to none, then using medical coverage as anything but a barging chip is a bad strategy.

Who said anyone wants an arbitrator? I certainly do NOT want a third party making life impacting decisions for 30,000 members. I believe the assoc has stated something similar slso

 

[NYer]

The consequences of your decision are going to be very simple. If the IAM is unanimous NOT to put something out than nothing is going to come out PERIOD.

The way the Association is written assured that there HAS to be a majority to pass it on to us and there are NO tiebreakers.

So yes you can potentially come to a point where you have a vote and TWU votes to unanimously pass it and IAM votes unanimously not to.

Now you officially have the consequences of what you supported. You have to own it.

We can stand as long and as strong as we'd like but the airline can and will do the same. Give us a viable option to get what we want and let's go, but just saying no until you get what you want is not a viable option.

Section 6 is not in our favor and after about two raises for the other airlines (Dec 2019) we'd be about $2 less an hour or a little over $4,000 per year just on the 2080 hours. So at that point, we're fighting to keep a benefit that saves some $6,000 in additional cost but at the same time, we're not earning at least $4,000 (without even considering the shift differential, the holidays or any other compensation piece).

It doesn't mean we accept just anything that comes our way but we also have to recognize the consequences of not having an agreement. It may be that all the members get unified and we all agree to fight the fight for the sake of principles, but in order for that to happen the Association needs to grab the helm and we're not just updated by individual Locals.

At this point, the information we receive is being shared by individuals and not as one organization. The protests in the summer were TWU, not Association. The updates via video's and letters are from individuals.