American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NYer]

I believe as it stands TODAY ....the Pension is a better option than the current 401k for LAA. But that of course is just my opinion.

It may be for the younger TWU Members, but not necessarily for the older or senior Members.

 

[WeAAsles]

Sure, why not.

The trend coming out of the Company so far is to not make any real improvements to the 2014 IAM Agreements. Their (side) has so far been receiving pretty much nothing but concessionary offers.

So they listen to you and say “Sure, why not” and put it out. That’s including the improvements you believe are coming which what if still include their losses. They bring back Lavs (For us) Deicing in DFW (For us) Better PT Language (For us) but still want their Catering.

So now with the changes you have an 80% passing on the TWU side but almost a unanimous failure on the IAM side. But maybe because of those changes designed to peddle to us the agreement passes overall be 52% (It squeaks in)

Again put yourself in their shoes. If I was in their shoes I’m not seeing any reason why I should take what I think is mostly a POS and put it out for a vote. I wouldn’t be doing the job my Members tasked me with/ trusted me with doing.

 

[WeAAsles]

It doesn't take big boy pants just to say no. Anyone can do that, especially those that don't have to deal with the consequences of their decisions.

You were the one who jumped in headfirst to support the IAM Association. You were the one to convince me when I wasn’t sure about it and thought it could be a bad idea.

Now you want to see them do what you want and maybe in the back of your mind because you might not get what you want, you think I was right in the first place?

It’s too late to go back now NYer. You have to live with the seeds you sowed.

 

[WeAAsles]

It doesn't take big boy pants just to say no. Anyone can do that, especially those that don't have to deal with the consequences of their decisions.

The consequences of your decision are going to be very simple. If the IAM is unanimous NOT to put something out than nothing is going to come out PERIOD.

The way the Association is written assured that there HAS to be a majority to pass it on to us and there are NO tiebreakers.

So yes you can potentially come to a point where you have a vote and TWU votes to unanimously pass it and IAM votes unanimously not to.

Now you officially have the consequences of what you supported. You have to own it.

 

[NYer]

You were the one who jumped in headfirst to support the IAM Association. You were the one to convince me when I wasn’t sure about it and thought it could be a bad idea.

Now you want to see them do what you want and maybe in the back of your mind because you might not get what you want, you think I was right in the first place?

It’s too late to go back now NYer. You have to live with the seeds you sowed.

This is why it is so hard for you to maintain a conversation.

My postings are not about what they should do, it's about what I believe will happen. I've understood their position and this process better than you have and even defended their point of view of not wanting to work towards a deal unless they agreed to it. I don't bring up the disparity with their holiday pay versus ours, the TWU did that. I don't advocate they rush towards anything, I've understood from the beginning this process would take much longer than was advertised.

Seeing all that, if there is a vote before Section 6 it would be because they agreed to it and no one can or should force that decision. Despite the fact they don't want to lose the medical, if and when they do, they will have the deciding vote because it can't happen without them.

Saying no is not a long-term strategy, and losing in other areas is a real consequence to that. If everyone is OK with that outcome, then we can say no forever.

 

[WeAAsles]

This is why it is so hard for you to maintain a conversation.

My postings are not about what they should do, it's about what I believe will happen. I've understood their position and this process better than you have and even defended their point of view of not wanting to work towards a deal unless they agreed to it. I don't bring up the disparity with their holiday pay versus ours, the TWU did that. I don't advocate they rush towards anything, I've understood from the beginning this process would take much longer than was advertised.

Seeing all that, if there is a vote before Section 6 it would be because they agreed to it and no one can or should force that decision. Despite the fact they don't want to lose the medical, if and when they do, they will have the deciding vote because it can't happen without them.

Saying no is not a long-term strategy, and losing in other areas is a real consequence to that. If everyone is OK with that outcome, then we can say no forever.

The TWU has not been pointing out the disparity in Holiday pay for members to pick up the ball and sling mud at the IAM (Weird) they meant the mud to be slung at the Company.

I agree with you that I wish they had never done that. I think it makes us look weenieish and like crybabies. I think it plays more into the Company’s hands that we’re greedy and maybe can be bought.

 

[WeAAsles]

This is why it is so hard for you to maintain a conversation.

My postings are not about what they should do, it's about what I believe will happen. I've understood their position and this process better than you have and even defended their point of view of not wanting to work towards a deal unless they agreed to it. I don't bring up the disparity with their holiday pay versus ours, the TWU did that. I don't advocate they rush towards anything, I've understood from the beginning this process would take much longer than was advertised.

Seeing all that, if there is a vote before Section 6 it would be because they agreed to it and no one can or should force that decision. Despite the fact they don't want to lose the medical, if and when they do, they will have the deciding vote because it can't happen without them.

Saying no is not a long-term strategy, and losing in other areas is a real consequence to that. If everyone is OK with that outcome, then we can say no forever.

“Despite the fact they don't want to lose the medical, if and when they do, they will have the deciding vote because it can't happen without them.”

On a personal note about this comment and I want to tread very delicately here. You do realize that for a family especially our LAA Medical absolutely sucks.

(The delicate part) NYer if you have a wife and some beautiful children isn’t it almost catastrophic if you had to use our Medical plans to the max if something were to happen to any of them?

I’m not sure how many IAM people would get hit with that EXTRA $6,000 hit in total but there has to be a few of them.

I just think we should be trying to stand up a little stronger for ALL of us to gain some better costs on our Medical plans. Why the hell not man?

https://my.aa.com/medical/

 

[Racer X]

It doesn't take big boy pants just to say no. Anyone can do that, especially those that don't have to deal with the consequences of their decisions.

We all will deal with the consequence of our decisions. The NC has to deal with the members if they decide to NOT bring it out. They will have to deal with their members if they decide To BRING it out and as you have said “ it falls short of expectations”. If that happens and it fails it is back to the drawing board with questions from the membership on why the NC would even try to get it ratified along with the accusations and abuse...both verbal and in posts on social media.
If it passes and it turns out to be an inferior deal..well we all know what that could lead to.
The members will have to deal with their decision on ratification also....either way it goes.
Time to put on the big boy pants.

 

[Racer X]

well, don't those iam negotiators have elections in the future?

we can go your route (no lus insurance = no TA) or weaasles' route (compromise). is it too late to crunch those numbers?

either way, if the company is dead-set on the insurance (hints and proof with company offers/explanations) and now this company road show in iam stations...then you have to prepare to get something in exchange for it. will it be fair value?

aa will tell you that not all lus have a family plan and they will also tell you that a TOS lus agent will potentially earn $12/hr more on DOS, 5% 401k contribution vs. 4.1% pension contribution, 1 week more VC, along with more holidays (10 x 7) than he did 4 years ago?

i'm not saying this is enough to replace your insurance. i'm saying how i expect the company to rebut.

I agree not all have the family plan.. but even employee and spouse or employee and children are SIGNIFICANTLY higher in premiums. That is HUNDREDS more per month. Ask yourselves ONE QUESTION.....when have you ever known the company to push so hard for something that was in the BETTER interest for their Employees than it was for THEM???

 

[Racer X]

This is why it is so hard for you to maintain a conversation.

My postings are not about what they should do, it's about what I believe will happen. I've understood their position and this process better than you have and even defended their point of view of not wanting to work towards a deal unless they agreed to it. I don't bring up the disparity with their holiday pay versus ours, the TWU did that. I don't advocate they rush towards anything, I've understood from the beginning this process would take much longer than was advertised.

Seeing all that, if there is a vote before Section 6 it would be because they agreed to it and no one can or should force that decision. Despite the fact they don't want to lose the medical, if and when they do, they will have the deciding vote because it can't happen without them.

Saying no is not a long-term strategy, and losing in other areas is a real consequence to that. If everyone is OK with that outcome, then we can say no forever.

What other areas are you referring to? We shouldn’t lose anywhere....not in this day and age.
The only way we lose is if we don’t stand together....You know what they say about a chain and it’s weakest link...ONE Weak link and the strength of the entire chain is compromised.
Stay strong and stay unified!!! We can win this if we do!!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

Where do you guys come up with LUS was making 20 bucks an hr when this merger happened nonsense?

I think what they mean and they’re right that without the Merger you were still in Contract talks and only making $20.57 per hour. But as I recall before we gave back a ton of chit in the Bankruptcy and gained some wage increases in exchange we weren’t any more than about a $1.00 above you and that’s it.

 

[UPNAWAY]

I think the question people should be asking is what is the chance that an arbitrator will carve out MX and Fleet with a Cadillac healthcare plan that no other company employee has? If the answer to that is slim to none, then using medical coverage as anything but a barging chip is a bad strategy.

 

[WeAAsles]

Where do you guys come up with LUS was making 20 bucks an hr when this merger happened nonsense?

Hey rat if people want to play the team sport of how crappy you guys had it back in 2010, maybe they ought to check out this little reminder of how crappy our own house was back then too.

Oops.

https://twu514.org/files/2010/03/FleetService_proof_final-2-1.pdf

 

[WeAAsles]

I think the question people should be asking is what is the chance that an arbitrator will carve out MX and Fleet with a Cadillac healthcare plan that no other company employee has? If the answer to that is slim to none, then using medical coverage as anything but a barging chip is a bad strategy.

That Cadillac Plan Tax is going to eventually go the same way as the Dodo Bird. And if it doesn’t LUS IAM already has a letter in effect that addresses that unfortunately one of their plans would need to be discontinued.

I don’t think anyone including the IAM is looking to hit the Company with a 40% Tax because of those plans.

 

[B737 driver]

You were the one who jumped in headfirst to support the IAM Association. You were the one to convince me when I wasn’t sure about it and thought it could be a bad idea.

Now you want to see them do what you want and maybe in the back of your mind because you might not get what you want, you think I was right in the first place?

It’s too late to go back now NYer. You have to live with the seeds you sowed.

The IAM should've stepped aside, and US air guys should have lived under the TWU contract, good or bad. After all they got all of their seniority when they were merged. Then they would've had to live under the TWU contract. You guys have the same situation as far as seeing something to vote on we did with AMFA at SWA. There are 4 ALRs , the majority of them have to sign off on a T/A before it can be presented.