American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Racer X]

The IAM Medical is a must have.

I disagree that it’s a MUST have....it is most definitely a WANT by the company.
There were MUST haves by AA and USAIRWAYS when they were facing Bankruptcy.
We tried to understand that...not that we liked it...but we tried and GAVE.....
This is in No Way A MUST HAVE.. just plain old corporate greed and a test of WILLS....Time to put on our Big Boy pants....I hope when the time comes to vote that the ENTIRE NC has them on.

 

[WeAAsles]

If it falls short, it shouldn’t come out

In watching your FB Groups pages, reading a few people who pop up on ours and reading the people here. I’m not seeing any frustrations in anyone under those IAM Contracts.

I’m really not seeing a ton of frustration on our side but there are a few here and there.

A few of them are coming out of here in MIA? I wonder if someone is purposefully stirring them up while I try to simmer them down?

Yin and Yang.

 

[WeAAsles]

I disagree that it’s a MUST have....it is most definitely a WANT by the company.
There were MUST haves by AA and USAIRWAYS when they were facing Bankruptcy.
We tried to understand that...not that we liked it...but we tried and GAVE.....
This is in No Way A MUST HAVE.. just plain old corporate greed and a test of WILLS....Time to put on our Big Boy pants....I hope when the time comes to vote that the ENTIRE NC has them on.

You might have one TWU guy who needs to wear suspenders?

 

[Racer X]

Yep, can't argue with that. So Racer, although I think you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about, lets just say for now and the foreseeable future, the LUS contract is superior to the LAA contract.

Agree....

I agree. So I guess that means that LAA guys are all ready under a concessionary contract.

Agree on both of these. IMO the “ fight” with the company would be so much more unified if TWU were not operating under that “Forced Agreement”

 

[Racer X]

In my opinion other than the IAMNPF you have made a very correct statement.

I believe as it stands TODAY ....the Pension is a better option than the current 401k for LAA. But that of course is just my opinion.

 

[Racer X]

ok, so what were the constants that the company never enhanced/budged on for each public proposal? lus insurance and catering.

and, profit sharing?

ok, add the lus insurance and some scope and tell me if it adds up to the potential of the company paying hundreds of millions per year in profit sharing and/or, the possibility of aa working regionals in hubs?



my personal feeling is that the company is close with wages/401k, bit further off on scope...though i feel the lavs part is ridiculous and the company will relent. the laa guys i know are more than ok with the wages, i'm the one who wants too much ($32.50/hr without differential on DOS, TOS of $36/hr without differential).

hopefully, the company will further sweeten their public and private proposal.

for a vote, it's not my opinion or an lus agent's opinion. weaasles talks about an insurance compromise. what if there is no insurance compromise. will the iam part of the assoc. allow this to come to a vote?

you say it's 50-50? i'd say if the iam assoc. big-shooters are confident that they can sell to their rank & file the trade-off of the insurance for the money, then we'll get a vote.

if not, laa will grumble that they (lus iam) went from $20/hr to potentially all of us at TOS $35.50/hr, but due to the insurance issue, we're stuck in the mud and could possibly lose more.

Why would they “ sell” this to their members?
The insurance premium increase to a Lus agent is the equivalent to a $3.00 pay cut.

 

[Racer X]

wow, if it's the same jim wheel that gave me a jet bridge key in 1988.

what would be enough for them? does it have to be exclusively for iam agents? pension upgrade and/or scope (catering)??

you know that laa joe lunchbox is grumbling.

Exclusively for IAM?? You’re joking right?
Whatever IAM gets...TWU ALSO gets... so going from
IAM : 9 sick days to 10........+1
7 holidays to 10.......+3
2x pay....already have language but will see slightly better
Decent Medical to......?????????
If medical stays current LUS it is ZERO gain
If medical changes to LAA .....SIGNIFICANT LOSS!!!!!!
Best IAM can hope for is Break EVEN!!!!

TWU: 5 sick days to 10......+5
5 holidays to 10......+5
NO 2x pay language to very good 2x language
Awful Medical to .........???????
If medical stays........No Change
If Medical goes to LUS........SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT
TWU is in a NO LOSE situation with the MEDICAL....
Exclusively for IAM??????

 

[CremaDiLimone]

well, don't those iam negotiators have elections in the future?

we can go your route (no lus insurance = no TA) or weaasles' route (compromise). is it too late to crunch those numbers?

either way, if the company is dead-set on the insurance (hints and proof with company offers/explanations) and now this company road show in iam stations...then you have to prepare to get something in exchange for it. will it be fair value?

aa will tell you that not all lus have a family plan and they will also tell you that a TOS lus agent will potentially earn $12/hr more on DOS, 5% 401k contribution vs. 4.1% pension contribution, 1 week more VC, along with more holidays (10 x 7) than he did 4 years ago?

i'm not saying this is enough to replace your insurance. i'm saying how i expect the company to rebut.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Exclusively for IAM?? You’re joking right?

TWU is in a NO LOSE situation with the MEDICAL....
Exclusively for IAM??????

no, i'm not joking. i have asked the question; would the iam negotiators be out of line for wanting exclusive compensation for giving up their insurance.

such as scope. catering jobs. maybe aa keeps and funds your pension 6.5% instead of 4.1%. maybe both.

someone has to get creative because the status quo isn't working on the insurance. the company hasn't budged.

 

[Racer X]

no, i'm not joking. i have asked the question; would the iam negotiators be out of line for wanting exclusive compensation for giving up their insurance.

such as scope. catering jobs. maybe aa keeps and funds your pension 6.5% instead of 4.1%. maybe both.

someone has to get creative because the status quo isn't working on the insurance. the company hasn't budged.

I think I misunderstood your meaning....
My apologies

 

[NYer]

If it falls short, it shouldn’t come out

Sure, why not.

 

[cltrat]

Where do you guys come up with LUS was making 20 bucks an hr when this merger happened nonsense?

 

[Deleted member 14439]

The IAM side of the Association prevents any type of vote. The negotiations go to section 6 which take a year or two as the IAM continues to drag it out fully realizing their medical (and probably pension) are in jeopardy. Eventually, they are stripped of one or two of the previously mentioned but are able to say to their members they were able to keep it an extra two years for the members but had no power once the mediator stepped in. All the while the TWU members will continue to be shortchanged in other areas during this process. I guess the IAM sees this as only fair since the healthcare will go up and they will be on the receiving end of "concessions".
That's the opinion of this "Putz" because I do believe someones hand has already been revealed.

Agreed, and it will only further divide and alienate an already beat down workforce.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

Exclusively for IAM?? You’re joking right?
Whatever IAM gets...TWU ALSO gets... so going from
IAM : 9 sick days to 10........+1
7 holidays to 10.......+3
2x pay....already have language but will see slightly better
Decent Medical to......?????????
If medical stays current LUS it is ZERO gain
If medical changes to LAA .....SIGNIFICANT LOSS!!!!!!
Best IAM can hope for is Break EVEN!!!!

TWU: 5 sick days to 10......+5
5 holidays to 10......+5
NO 2x pay language to very good 2x language
Awful Medical to .........???????
If medical stays........No Change
If Medical goes to LUS........SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT
TWU is in a NO LOSE situation with the MEDICAL....
Exclusively for IAM??????

You are exactly right Racer...

Certain posters are attempting to narrow the picture to only the TWU perspective. With the Medical, Catering etc. on the LAA side, it's easy to utilize the Divide and Conquer strategy. Especially, since in the minds of the LAA workers, this is NOT a concession, since they don't currently have contractual provisions for these items.

When ALL members look at themselves as ONE group, the picture changes...
The LAA medical is a concession...
Loss of LUS Catering is a concession...

Now, we can't really blame the company for attempting this -- we can only blame ourselves for falling into the trap of being divided by an outside source!
The company is playing a numbers game, and it's simple -- All they need to do is convince a majority of the TWU/IAM aggregate.
Now, since the LAA/TWU is a larger majority, it gives them the leverage to attempt this...

Divide and Conquer...

>SPIT<

 

[NYer]

I disagree that it’s a MUST have....it is most definitely a WANT by the company.
There were MUST haves by AA and USAIRWAYS when they were facing Bankruptcy.
We tried to understand that...not that we liked it...but we tried and GAVE.....
This is in No Way A MUST HAVE.. just plain old corporate greed and a test of WILLS....Time to put on our Big Boy pants....I hope when the time comes to vote that the ENTIRE NC has them on.

It doesn't take big boy pants just to say no. Anyone can do that, especially those that don't have to deal with the consequences of their decisions.