American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[2ndGENAMT]

The latest discussion that was about scope was not put in writing. Keep in mind, at this point in negotiations, neither side will put much in writing until much verbal discussion across the table and they pretty much know there is an agreement.

The company after making their remark that basically stated, even if we agreed to give you all your current work in your 40 stations, you guys wouldnt agree to that. The company was then told to put that in writing for us and they refused. There was then discussion on they would guarantee all “ core work” which also sounded pretty good, until we heard what they considered core work, which is basically loading and unloading aircraft only. Everything else they wanted to fall under when and where directed. They make no secret that they want to shrink head count over the years through attrition. In order to do that, they need most of our work under the when and where directed so they will have the ability to get rid of work as we attrition down.
Now that’s not to Say That in the beginning of our contract from the company’s offer that we wouldnt be doing a lot of other work, we would because we would have to be since they would guarantee everyone their jobs. But once we start attritioning down, that work would slowly disappear depending on what the company would want to do away with. So we would be allowing the company to get rid or work. Which would never allow our membership to not even grow, but to also not even stay where it is today. It would only shrink down to the number they would be content with.

One question sir. Is the reason that nothing of late is put in writing because AA knows that the mediator can and would use that? And the reason why the companies Jetnet info is basically the same as 6 months ago.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Im not sure Charlie Brown understands that self help cant be used until after any cooling off period. His letter put out yesterday says that the union will exercise all self help rights. Note: ALL self help rights only come after a cooling off, which is extremely unlikely. For sake of argument, Mr Charlie put the chance at 1%.

I provided the official Union document (2014) where the iam itself said that any rejected ta would likely put less pressure on an airline since there is virtually no chance for self help and most likely an imposition of less favorable terms.

So Mr Charlie can keep lying with his other anti unionist stealing your money and screaming "self help" but that door is shut tight and not an exit.

The exit is to now accept contractual terms that was less than offered. Catering and much other work will now be gone. The company's renewed hard ball approach will most likely mean it will start looking into layoffs and shifting fleet work to contractors.
The bonehead move to protect the pension has cost all of us. It was never about health care.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You call the members retarded and idiots. And you continuously deceive the few that still listens to you. What members are you referring to? Again, you have no right to speak for any members.

you arent even a member of this miserable collective bargaining agent. Nobody has rights. Period.
The question remains (as my representative that im paying dues for) is the iam pension projected critical?
Just showing that you are owned and not a stand up guy and cant answer a very easy question.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You call the members retarded and idiots. And you continuously deceive the few that still listens to you. What members are you referring to? Again, you have no right to speak for any members.

and i call you guys morons. Sorry if that offends you but lets just say you guys dont listen. People keep telling you clowns to disclose information but you guys just dont listen.

And im not talking about love letters that you put out how you really understand what twu members are going thru. Touching, but not the sorta info members need. Also not talking about bullchiat updates either involving tin foil hats and conspiracy theories. And please, no more updates with fake exit plans like self help. People arent interested in BS and less than 1% shots in the dark.
You guys need to change your policy. Honesty is the best.

 

[cltrat]

you arent even a member of this miserable collective bargaining agent. Nobody has rights. Period.
The question remains (as my representative that im paying dues for) is the iam pension projected critical?
Just showing that you are owned and not a stand up guy and cant answer a very easy question.

So you are paying dues? I thought you said you were dues objecter or was that just another one of your lies?
Sorry dude but you coming in here calling anyone a liar is irony that couldn’t be cut with a plasma torch.
You change your tune like the wind changing how anyone can take you seriously is just beyond me at this point even if they wanted to.

 

[Tim Nelson]

First met Tim over thirty years ago. Worked with him on getting the Teamsters in after the merger, not many union men in CLT at the time., Lost a close vote. Then Tim decided to start his own union. Divided the workers enough to vote another loss by pissing on every one who supported the other unions. Passed on the pissing match, it wasn't in anyone's interest. Saw then it wasn't about the workers, it was about Tim.

Things change over thirty years, but Tim hasn't. Still about Tim, not the workers.

Carry on..

All about me?
Maybe you have a point, but its not for me to say. Admittedly, I am a bit more selfish than I should be.

Where are you at in all of this? Your children are already raised so keeping the health care and what you already have is livable, right?

Im in a livable situation as well and if the jcba drags on for 4 years then it may actually work out even better by putting us in a position to consider the buyout.

I always liked ya even though we had serious differences in 08.

This association has made some serious errors, wouldnt you say? Giving up cross utilization without a jcba may have been the biggest.

 

[Tim Nelson]

So you are paying dues? I thought you said you were dues objecter or was that just another one of your lies?
Sorry dude but you coming in here calling anyone a liar is irony that couldn’t be cut with a plasma torch.
You change your tune like the wind changing how anyone can take you seriously is just beyond me at this point even if they wanted to.

of course i pay dues. Why wouldnt I?
I just refuse to pay the 33% of dues that feeds the democratic party. I get as much representation...even more now, than you since my civil rights have been engaged. Charlie is actually digging himself in a hole like he always does with me by separating me out and doing so based on me being a dues objector. If he were in a local hall, he could do that but not if he makes himself available in a public forum. He is my representative.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You are taking a huge risk my friend of that lion roaring. There are those on here that say the company’s proposal would have passed by 90%. Now I don’t agree with 90%, but it would have been close. And if it did pass, instead of a lion roaring we would have became that little rabbit that runs from the roar. With that proposal we would go from some of our language falling under the when are where directed, to almost all the work falling under the when and where directed. I’m surprised being at a small station, you would want to take that risk.

thats not true. The company offer offered station protection for all current employees. Period. You never ever must have seen the grandfather language or even saw the offer?
Sito rejected the grandfather language because he wanted to keep the dues flow from the unborn in stations like jax.
Yes, almost 2 dozen small stations would eventually be replaced with vendors as the members retire or quit.
The union also wanted automatic iam recognition for the vendors as it negotiated at alaska and united so the union could expand its dues base.
Certainly, I cant say you are wrong for wanting to keep all the work in these small stations, but I think as a matter of being practical that you guys shouldnt have rejected the grandfather protections.

 

[swamt]

Well thank you sir!! I appreciate that!

No prob. I just see the negio's taking a hard stall by how the company reacted by yanking everything off the table and somewhat starting all over with scope and jobs. I would never wish you guys bad luck. Most people do not understand what you guys go through at the table. I have experienced it first hand so I really do wish you guys the best.

CB, I continually hear you and many others say all of our work with the exception of the loading and unloading of aircraft was in jeopardy. You today said almost all work would have fallen under the "when and where directed" language. Could you clarify that. And was that a verbal threat or was that in writing from the company. If writing, can the members read it. With section 6 forced upon us, I personally would like to have more/better clarification than what the updates provide, and I would also like to see exactly what the company was asking. This most, more, etc... isn't completely clear.

Now CB this is only one example, but the members are sick of the lack of info as I have been telling you. Please hear them and get them the info they so badly desire.

 

[swamt]

I agree, both are going to have to move. I don't believe the mediator can force that, so I really don't see the point of having one. In my opinion, we are in for a long battle, and I'm not talking months.

Corect. If anything using a mediator will take longer as now you have to have a 3rd party agree and be available for the dates set to nego.
And yes, again correct, a mediator cannot force anyone to move. They will simply "try" to get a side or both sides closer to meeting in the middle.
I also agree with your time frame, won't be in months.
AA is playing the exact same play book as they did with us and now not even moving as P.Rez has indicated. This position is usually held for months on in.

 

[swamt]

Will try to get back on here over the weekend if this storm doesn’t prevent me from doing so.

By all means if you are near or at the Florence storm please be careful. We don't need any lost lives over stubborn people staying to wait it out. Please get safe and stay safe by all means. Good luck if you have to deal with this storm, it will be days not hours.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Update

I not trying to be difficult here, but why would we have a vote on the offer by the company before going into Mediated talks? The NC believes the company is offering a concessionary deal. IMO, the company will have to move off this garbage they are offering us. Don't get me wrong, we will have to move too but the company is acting like we are in bankruptcy. They are not moving. FYI, we went to mediation in our 2014 contract too.

P. Rez

A reasonable comment even though there are a few elements I don't agree with. These are the sorta comments that members need. And you did so without showing your hand or compromising. If only the Association would provide more balanced updates than all of the working class hero stuff that most are sick of, even though they don't tell you.

I appreciate your comment Prez

 

[cltrat]

So tell me Tim are you a dues objecter or are you a non member? You stated previously you had rescinded your membership? Which imo gives you no opinion in any of this, so what is it at least as of today?

 

[swamt]

thats not true. The company offer offered station protection for all current employees. Period. You never ever must have seen the grandfather language or even saw the offer?
Sito rejected the grandfather language because he wanted to keep the dues flow from the unborn in stations like jax.
Yes, almost 2 dozen small stations would eventually be replaced with vendors as the members retire or quit.
The union also wanted automatic iam recognition for the vendors as it negotiated at alaska and united so the union could expand its dues base.
Certainly, I cant say you are wrong for wanting to keep all the work in these small stations, but I think as a matter of being practical that you guys shouldnt have rejected the grandfather protections.

CB was right in his response to you. We had the same thing here with most in the very beginning saying ours would pass by 80% whereas now we all see it is failing by 80% the exact opposite. Amazing how that rumor got reversed and now the company knows that about 80% of the members did not like their first offer.

 

[swamt]

Keeping information from the dues payers is what causes this!

Bingo!

and i call you guys morons. Sorry if that offends you but lets just say you guys dont listen. People keep telling you clowns to disclose information but you guys just dont listen.

And im not talking about love letters that you put out how you really understand what twu members are going thru. Touching, but not the sorta info members need. Also not talking about bullchiat updates either involving tin foil hats and conspiracy theories. And please, no more updates with fake exit plans like self help. People arent interested in BS and less than 1% shots in the dark.
You guys need to change your policy. Honesty is the best.

CB, are you listening to the members now? They are publically telling you that they are kept in the dark. It not just me saying it. They have been saying this from the very beginning, when will you guys get it???
This is how closed minded you guys are with the membership and it is sad to watch.