American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NYer]

I find that difficult to believe given the 50-something question check-off sheet for prior criminal convictions over the past 25 (?) years required upon SIDA badge application or renewal. We have had relatively senior guys in PHX arrested for child porn (but not yet convicted) and were terminated, not to mention, something as "simple" as a DUI without injuries conviction leading to loss of driving privileges, thus revocation of SIDA badge. My experience has been that it does not take much of a criminal conviction of some offense to be denied a SIDA badge-- simple assault, domestic abuse, DUI, petty theft, fraud, forgery, misdemeanor drug possession, etc., I have all seen as being grounds for termination.

It can vary depending on the State and whether the conviction is a Felony. Misdemeanor doesn't automatically disqualify someone.

On a Federal case you can take a plea and if you comply with the conditions of the plea your final disposition could reflect a positive outcome that may not disqualify you.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Arbitrator?

didnt the pilot group submit to arbitration or did them and the company reach a mediated deal before?

 

[bob@las-AA]

For those who claim they want to effect change. Don't forget a stamp.

 

[Vortilon]

The problem with your theory is that the NC for the AMT's were AMT Local Presidents and the only Members that voted for the CBA were also AMT's.

You don't like what you ended up with, obviously, but blaming everyone under the sun doesn't change anything.

AMT's blame Fleet, the Line AMT blame the Base AMT, they blame the leadership...they blame everyone but they don't make a change.

Why continue the BS? The International owns the contract! There was no negotiating, Little unilaterally signed off on it for our/his own good.
As far as blame goes, lets be clear, overhaul votes for things that suit overhaul, line AMTs vote for things that matter to line AMTs. The problem for the line AMTs in the past, is they were outnumbered - hence out voted by overhaul. Times have changed.

As far as blaming fleet service, well that's not exactly how I would put it. The union leadership picking winners would be more apt. It's hard to make the change when the system is basically set up to prevent AMTs from ever leaving this AMT hating union. The last two AMFA drives were thwarted by both the company and the TWU through deceitful tactics. Add to that, biased a-holes at the NMB allowing forged authorization cards, allowing non classification voters to be considered eligible to vote - thereby diluting the AMT voters. The last one was just a little to obvious; when on the same day, the Reamsters submitted their forged authorization cards with the NMB - to thwart the grass roots AMFA drive at AA. At the behest of the TWU, Somehow, AA managed to; oddly enough, have a management team member ready to get to Washington DC on the same day, with all of the necessary signatures for proof to show the NMB. When have you ever seen AA do anything that fast unless they were in on it? Well, it wasn't long before the NMB ruled that the Reamsters submitted forged cards, and it was an obvious move to scuttle the AMFA drive. The NMB took no legal action against the Reamsters, and barred the AMFA from submitting their legit authorization cards. There are plenty more examples of underhanded shite that the TWU and company have pulled to prevent AMTs from leaving.

 

[necigrad]

I've been avoiding this forum for quite a long time and I'm not going to read through all 63 pages. I did notince that there are a lot of comments regarding the Companys proposal, as well as some posts by Pat Rezler. Since I know the Negotiating Committee reads this (And ya know what? The Company does too!) I'd like to say a few things.

First off, to Stephen Johnson and Kerry Philipovitch you two are decietful manipulative obnoxious individuals who are also oblivious to what is said about you. You played a game by making a crappy offer dressed up (the proverbial lipstick on a pig) and then selected choice facts to make your case. Given that those facts (while I believe true) were half truths or vague answers makes me question your (and thus the Companys) ethical grounding. The Negotiating Committee saw through it, and the rank and file did as well.

To the Negotiating Committee, thank you for saying "No" to the Company. Their offer was subpar and full of double talk. Please stick to your beliefs of what is right and not what will pass. I could certainly address a lot of points in the Companys latest offer, but I'm pretty sure there are 63 pages (in this thread and not including the previous one) that have already citiqued the individual points.

To all, I know this forum is mostly visited by those who share my opinions on this matter, but in case there are others reading, please pay attention to what's actually being offered. The Company will throw out pay increases, signing bonuses, increased vacations, and 401(k) match in an attempt to turn your eyes from what they're taking away. They can, will, and HAVE given with one hand and taken with the other, this time will be no exception. Read the offers with a CRITICAL eye. Don't accept what's said, read between the lines and consider what else it COULD mean. Make sure to see the forest for the trees. Also, remember that every dollar extra, every percentage into a 401(k), every extra holiday mean NOTHING if you are no longer employed. Both AA and US have furloughed in the past and they'll use any opportunity to do so again.

 

[Kev3188]

Nice to see you back.

 

[robbedagain]

Nice to see ur back. Excellent post

 

[737823]

Sito and Regan were MX.

P. Rez

TW and NW. Neither workgroup is IAM represented, both carriers have a history of concessions and were never at the league of LAA.

Sure back in the day TWA was a polished, well run and iconic carrier but NWA and LUS/HP/West never were.

They seem too conditioned to give concessions given their bargaining history during downturns, serial bankruptcies, etc.

Why is Sito representing LUS if he has never worked under your agreement?

Josh

 

[NYer]

didnt the pilot group submit to arbitration or did them and the company reach a mediated deal before?

The APA and AA has an agreement that called for binding arbitration if they didn't reach a consensual deal within 150 days, to decide on any outstanding issues.

 

[NYer]

Why continue the BS? The International owns the contract! There was no negotiating, Little unilaterally signed off on it for our/his own good.
As far as blame goes, lets be clear, overhaul votes for things that suit overhaul, line AMTs vote for things that matter to line AMTs. The problem for the line AMTs in the past, is they were outnumbered - hence out voted by overhaul. Times have changed.

As far as blaming fleet service, well that's not exactly how I would put it. The union leadership picking winners would be more apt. It's hard to make the change when the system is basically set up to prevent AMTs from ever leaving this AMT hating union. The last two AMFA drives were thwarted by both the company and the TWU through deceitful tactics. Add to that, biased a-holes at the NMB allowing forged authorization cards, allowing non classification voters to be considered eligible to vote - thereby diluting the AMT voters. The last one was just a little to obvious; when on the same day, the Reamsters submitted their forged authorization cards with the NMB - to thwart the grass roots AMFA drive at AA. At the behest of the TWU, Somehow, AA managed to; oddly enough, have a management team member ready to get to Washington DC on the same day, with all of the necessary signatures for proof to show the NMB. When have you ever seen AA do anything that fast unless they were in on it? Well, it wasn't long before the NMB ruled that the Reamsters submitted forged cards, and it was an obvious move to scuttle the AMFA drive. The NMB took no legal action against the Reamsters, and barred the AMFA from submitting their legit authorization cards. There are plenty more examples of underhanded shite that the TWU and company have pulled to prevent AMTs from leaving.

Ah. OK, now it's clear.

The AMT's have not been able to leave because of the TWU, AA, Teamsters and the NMB. Then their contract has been substandard because of Fleet, Little, the Int'l Reps. and because the Base outnumbered the Line.

Got it.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The APA and AA has an agreement that called for binding arbitration if they didn't reach a consensual deal within 150 days, to decide on any outstanding issues.

Interesting

 

[Vortilon]

Ah. OK, now it's clear.

The AMT's have not been able to leave because of the TWU, AA, Teamsters and the NMB. Then their contract has been substandard because of Fleet, Little, the Int'l Reps. and because the Base outnumbered the Line.

Got it.

Why would a FSC care what AMTs want? BTW , your snarky replies don't help your pro TWU slant.

 

[1AA]

Ah. OK, now it's clear.

The AMT's have not been able to leave because of the TWU, AA, Teamsters and the NMB. Then their contract has been substandard because of Fleet, Little, the Int'l Reps. and because the Base outnumbered the Line.

Got it.

That just about sums it up.
Unfortunately we continue to sit back and take it up the @$$ over and over thinking it will be different next time. We are a bunch of losers.

 

[bob@las-AA]

I've been avoiding this forum for quite a long time and I'm not going to read through all 63 pages. I did notince that there are a lot of comments regarding the Companys proposal, as well as some posts by Pat Rezler. Since I know the Negotiating Committee reads this (And ya know what? The Company does too!) I'd like to say a few things.

First off, to Stephen Johnson and Kerry Philipovitch you two are decietful manipulative obnoxious individuals who are also oblivious to what is said about you. You played a game by making a crappy offer dressed up (the proverbial lipstick on a pig) and then selected choice facts to make your case. Given that those facts (while I believe true) were half truths or vague answers makes me question your (and thus the Companys) ethical grounding. The Negotiating Committee saw through it, and the rank and file did as well.

To the Negotiating Committee, thank you for saying "No" to the Company. Their offer was subpar and full of double talk. Please stick to your beliefs of what is right and not what will pass. I could certainly address a lot of points in the Companys latest offer, but I'm pretty sure there are 63 pages (in this thread and not including the previous one) that have already citiqued the individual points.

To all, I know this forum is mostly visited by those who share my opinions on this matter, but in case there are others reading, please pay attention to what's actually being offered. The Company will throw out pay increases, signing bonuses, increased vacations, and 401(k) match in an attempt to turn your eyes from what they're taking away. They can, will, and HAVE given with one hand and taken with the other, this time will be no exception. Read the offers with a CRITICAL eye. Don't accept what's said, read between the lines and consider what else it COULD mean. Make sure to see the forest for the trees. Also, remember that every dollar extra, every percentage into a 401(k), every extra holiday mean NOTHING if you are no longer employed. Both AA and US have furloughed in the past and they'll use any opportunity to do so again.

I want what's on the table now, not the same thing watered down years from now.

 

[pjirish317]

I want what's on the table now, not the same thing watered down years from now.

Of course you do. That's no real revelation there.