American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Tim Nelson]

I want what's on the table now, not the same thing watered down years from now.

it is a concern, especially if the company plays hard ball and starts shutting down twu stations and also lays off 1,000 iam members. Sito is soft and melts like cheese. Just awful is that idiot. But otoh, lus already has the best contract in the industry so there isnt any reason to negotiate unless we get substantual gains. Why bother?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I want what's on the table now, not the same thing watered down years from now.

i'll take that chance, bob. based on my aa years:

- the 1989 contract saw the 'c' scale, if i remember correctly. the next generation takes a hit for the perceived financial comfort of those already here.

- the 1995 contract was farcical. not much in terms of money (not even $2+ TOS from 1989 contract) and we lost 1 week vc. i remember crandall threatening to move ord hub to mci and shut down freight.

many were afraid because of bush recession and gulf war. the company knew the economy was turning and that everyone and their mother would be flying. 1995-2001 saw aa's best 5 year financial stretch until recent times. a lost 5 years...1995-2001.

- the 2001 contract saw a huge jump in pay. $19+/hr TOS to $24+/hr TOS. 20% jump.

bob, today, a 20% jump to TOS would be $36+/hr TOS. i don't think that is not impossible, given our competitors' wage scales and what they give for PS.

if we were in the bush recession, i could see the company digging in on ALL fronts. it's not like that now. listen to parker gush and brag about how much more money the company will earn going forward.

the company may have drawn a red line on a few issues. to me, there is much more compensation and scope to gain/retain for accepting the company's red line(s) on this and that issue.

we only have a few more contracts left to go in our careers here. let's get this one right.

 

[AANOTOK]

Some of us only have this one...

 

[Tim Nelson]

I want what's on the table now, not the same thing watered down years from now.

another thing, bob, is that the offer now already is less than what i currently enjoy. Maybe not true for you or twu peeps that need serious improvements but why would any lus person vote to get rid of a great contract, thanks to the twu?
Sure, i wouldnt mind more days off but our 32 swaps a quarter already give me 10-15 weeks of vacation already so im all good!

 

[Tim Nelson]

The APA and AA has an agreement that called for binding arbitration if they didn't reach a consensual deal within 150 days, to decide on any outstanding issues.

btw i appreciate you informing us without you being personally attacked anymore by management shills anymore.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Some of us only have this one...

i prob have 2..depending on other variables, maybe 3 if i take a pin.

i consider 1995-2001 lost years, and we all know what 2003-2016 did to us financially.

nearly 20 years total. half of one's career in the exciting airline industry.

 

[NYer]

Why would a FSC care what AMTs want? BTW , your snarky replies don't help your pro TWU slant.

That's funny, there's another poster that keeps telling people I'm anti-TWU. 😵

Doesn't matter to me what the mechanics do within their group, that's their decision. However, you're the one that came to this page and started the conversation in which you interjected your position as to how you came to where we are. So we had a conversation about that.

 

[NYer]

That just about sums it up.
Unfortunately we continue to sit back and take it up the @$$ over and over thinking it will be different next time. We are a bunch of losers.

The interesting thing to me with this debate with the AMT's wanting a change and that change is usually expressed as having an AMT govern an AMT.

That point is fair and legitimate but what is seldom spoken is the superior AMT CBA within the industry that is their goal to achieve. Sure, they cherry pick the points they want but they don't seem to point towards one CBA and present it as the gold standard.

Just an observation.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

another thing, bob, is that the offer now already is less than what i currently enjoy. Maybe not true for you or twu peeps that need serious improvements but why would any lus person vote to get rid of a great contract, thanks to the twu?

not to start ww3, but thanks to the twu/merger...you went to what to what in your stand-alone contract?

did you not need serious wage improvements and got them?

 

[NYer]

not to start ww3, but thanks to the twu/merger...you went to what to what in your stand-alone contract?

did you not need serious wage improvements and got them?

This is part of the process that is seldom talked about.

It was actually a positive for us in the TWU to have the IAM get their standalone.

I know most people point towards the raise they received, as we did as well, but seldom doesn't anyone bring up the fact that the IAM was in the middle of their own BK-recovery negotiations. A negotiation that was placed on the back-burner while their management team swooned the LAA unions during our BK process. At the end of the swooning is when LUS management paid attention to the IAM and we received promises of raises before they did. Think about that.

The part that is beneficial to us, other than having an airline being able to generate the revenue so we can debate getting more, is the fact that they eliminated the Ready Reserve language. That is certainly something that would have given the airline an even larger upper-hand in this process.

We need to take the time and understand both sides of this process so we can gain as much as we can rather than fight each other.

 

[bob@las-AA]

i'll take that chance, bob. based on my aa years:

- the 1989 contract saw the 'c' scale, if i remember correctly. the next generation takes a hit for the perceived financial comfort of those already here.

- the 1995 contract was farcical. not much in terms of money (not even $2+ TOS from 1989 contract) and we lost 1 week vc. i remember crandall threatening to move ord hub to mci and shut down freight.

many were afraid because of bush recession and gulf war. the company knew the economy was turning and that everyone and their mother would be flying. 1995-2001 saw aa's best 5 year financial stretch until recent times. a lost 5 years...1995-2001.

- the 2001 contract saw a huge jump in pay. $19+/hr TOS to $24+/hr TOS. 20% jump.

bob, today, a 20% jump to TOS would be $36+/hr TOS. i don't think that is not impossible, given our competitors' wage scales and what they give for PS.

if we were in the bush recession, i could see the company digging in on ALL fronts. it's not like that now. listen to parker gush and brag about how much more money the company will earn going forward.

the company may have drawn a red line on a few issues. to me, there is much more compensation and scope to gain/retain for accepting the company's red line(s) on this and that issue.

we only have a few more contracts left to go in our careers here. let's get this one right.

FYI the deal that is on the table NOW, with all the financial goodies added up equates to $37.83

 

[CremaDiLimone]

This is part of the process that is seldom talked about.

It was actually a positive for us in the TWU to have the IAM get their standalone.

I know most people point towards the raise they received, as we did as well

and tim is pointing to his standalone contract, saying he is fine and 'we' need serious improvements.

whom is fighting or provoking whom?

for sure, the merger has and will increase revenues and income. we will all share in that. up to this point, i can't argue some laa fscs who claim lus have benefited just a bit more.

the explanation you need to generate understanding is needing to sell enhancements in other areas to lus in lieu of the writing on the wall.

it's not me or you nor the twu that wants to take away their insurance. it's their former bosses at america west and us air.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

FYI the deal that is on the table NOW, with all the financial goodies added up equates to $37.83

i don't know, bob..

one thing is that i don't know if the company will pay you 2xs or 2 1/2xs holiday pay if you are scheduled off. if so,10 holidays, i don't believe you will work all of them..you'll need to bid all your vc when there are no holidays.

you may bid a 9am shift, no differential. etc., etc.

 

[NYer]

FYI the deal that is on the table NOW, with all the financial goodies added up equates to $37.83

It's a technicality, but there is no current proposal on the table.

The airline shared information but some of that information has not been memorialized on paper so we couldn't vote on this even if we wanted. I suspect some of the things they've announced will be enhanced by the time they get to make an official counter, or soon thereafter.

 

[bob@las-AA]

i don't know, bob..

one thing is that i don't know if the company will pay you 2xs or 2 1/2xs holiday pay if you are scheduled off. if so,10 holidays, i don't believe you will work all of them..you'll need to bid all your vc when there are no holidays.

you may bid a 9am shift, no differential. etc., etc.

Yes, you are correct, you will to have the right days off in order to catch the holidays.