American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[CremaDiLimone]

That's the sad truth AANOTOK. We've been feeling it and will continue to for who knows how long. At least the IAM guy comes on and admits they have done things for their members. Not for the Association. I have a hard time dealing with the TWU guys at all now. Some of the 513 guys are good fellows, but the international sold us out. And Parker loves it. Guy is like a used car salesman.

this wasn't obvious from the get-go? 70%-30% turns to 50-50/turns to 6-6, thanks to the generosity of the 30% - but the 30% has THE main executive negotiator?

no offense to anyone. my complaint was about seniority and how the twu 'forgot' about something important to union dues payers for decades. some iam guys will benefit from date of hire and jump twu guys, stuck with the intra-american/twu title 1-2-3 'occupational' seniority.

do i believe the iam are dummies? no. never made sense why little and the twu agreed to this, without making a few pre-assoc. agreements.

why i asked some union big-shooters, the consensus was the twu would have lost an election between twu vs. iam.

 

[WeAAsles]

this wasn't obvious from the get-go? 70%-30% turns to 50-50/turns to 6-6, thanks to the generosity of the 30% - but the 30% has THE main executive negotiator?

No the TWU currently holds the Association Chair role but both the TWU and IAM Lead Executives have equal legal say.

do i believe the iam are dummies? no. never made sense why little and the twu agreed to this, without making a few pre-assoc. agreements.

Jim Little agreed to the Association under pressure from the AFL/CIO who the IAM contributes far more to than the TWU could.

The IAM has the Political clout to force an agreement between the two Unions rather than the TWU filing for certification solo.

why i asked some union big-shooters, the consensus was the twu would have lost an election between twu vs. iam.

There wouldn’t have been an election because the IAM wouldn’t have had enough time to collect near 15,000 signatures for a showing of interest to be an intervenor.

The more members you have to get cards signed by the harder it becomes. Ask the IAM about their Delta campaigns or the Mechanics here who tried for 30 years to get AMFA and are now pretending to be looking elsewhere.

 

[AANOTOK]

this wasn't obvious from the get-go? 70%-30% turns to 50-50/turns to 6-6, thanks to the generosity of the 30% - but the 30% has THE main executive negotiator?

no offense to anyone. my complaint was about seniority and how the twu 'forgot' about something important to union dues payers for decades. some iam guys will benefit from date of hire and jump twu guys, stuck with the intra-american/twu title 1-2-3 'occupational' seniority.

do i believe the iam are dummies? no. never made sense why little and the twu agreed to this, without making a few pre-assoc. agreements.

why i asked some union big-shooters, the consensus was the twu would have lost an election between twu vs. iam.

You may be right, but I'm not sure where Title 3 was harmed (seniority wise) from the combo of the two. Again, not denying it, just haven't seen it.

 

[Rogallo]

Jim Little agreed to the Association under pressure from the AFL/CIO who the IAM contributes far more to than the TWU could.

Jim Little, the worst leader the TWU ATD has ever had!

#2 Don Videtich.

Hopefully GP ain't gonna be #3!

 

[B737 driver]

No the TWU currently holds the Association Chair role but both the TWU and IAM Lead Executives have equal legal say.



Jim Little agreed to the Association under pressure from the AFL/CIO who the IAM contributes far more to than the TWU could.

The IAM has the Political clout to force an agreement between the two Unions rather than the TWU filing for certification solo.



There wouldn’t have been an election because the IAM wouldn’t have had enough time to collect near 15,000 signatures for a showing of interest to be an intervenor.

The more members you have to get cards signed by the harder it becomes. Ask the IAM about their Delta campaigns or the Mechanics here who tried for 30 years to get AMFA and are now pretending to be looking elsewhere.

Let's be honest Weazz, even though Swarat will never admit it, AMP is a pipe dream, just like me wanting the Teamsters back at SWA, their Association is here to stay just like AMFA is here at SWA. You have to admire the IAM taking care of their members. Just like AMFA getting our seniority over the Airtran guys. However as SWA hires more and more mechanics, that group will grow to hate the fake 4 years seniority.

 

[Buck]

Mr. Nelson, you have repeatedly lied about the IAM pension being in on "critical life support" in these forums. I presented definitive proof that the IAMNPF is in fact a "green zone" plan, that is actually outperforming most similar plans....


View attachment 13504


Are you attempting to suppress the membership's interest in the IAMNPF with your false accusations? Are you doing this to prevent the TWU members from being offered the plan as well? Could you be doing this because you do not want the IAM to gain provenance and clout, thus making your divisionary tactics less effective?


Why lie? These has to be a reason...

LAA does not want the IAMPF, if the IAMPF is part of the contract then I want my Frozen Pension reinstated. For me to even think about the IAMPF I would have to have 35 years of Vesting and contributions from the company matched. No, my 401k is fine and I do not want any IAMPF Fingers near my money nor the Unions. If you want to see a DFR just try something this stupid.
If the IAMPF is in the Green then is it an Actuarial Value or a Fair Market Value? There have been many years that the IAMPF has been at or near the Green Zone but only for Actuarial values, it is the Fair Market Value that the recipients will receive and have to live on. Then at any time, the Fund Manager can "borrow" to shore up the value. See the attachment from 2012 and the Graph on page 5. Notice the IAM Pension Fund as audited by Credit Suisse in 2012 which makes the first paragraph of PIEDMONT784's upload in question. The "Actuarial Value" is Green, the "Fair Market Value" is in the RED with a funded value of 43.5%.

 

[Kev3188]

Thanks for the link, Buck. Great info.

The sheet that Piedmont linked above is nice, but really doesn't tell Plan Participants a whole lot. He likely knows this (or should), so I'm not sure why he didn't also encourage people to log in to IAMNPF.org and check out the 5550 documents, or let them know that there are a whole host of in-depth reports they can have sent to them.

 

[1AA]

Let's be honest Weazz, even though Swarat will never admit it, AMP is a pipe dream, just like me wanting the Teamsters back at SWA, their Association is here to stay just like AMFA is here at SWA. You have to admire the IAM taking care of their members. Just like AMFA getting our seniority over the Airtran guys. However as SWA hires more and more mechanics, that group will grow to hate the fake 4 years seniority.

UPS and UAL are hiring.
If you want your pipe dream Teamsters go for it. I doubt your over on the UAL boards posting pipedream comments about ALTA.
Your anger and feud with SWA fellow union brother is well known. We don't care. The Teamsters screwed us over and also failed at USAIR. Let it go. You have AMFA and we have the dysfunctional Association. Enough already.

 

[WeAAsles]

UPS and UAL are hiring.
If you want your pipe dream Teamsters go for it. I doubt your over on the UAL boards posting pipedream comments about ALTA.
Your anger and feud with SWA fellow union brother is well known. We don't care. The Teamsters screwed us over and also failed at USAIR. Let it go. You have AMFA and we have the dysfunctional Association. Enough already.

And why aren’t you putting in applications for SWA to get in your pipe dream AMFA? You need to go for it. Otherwise everyone here knows how much anger you have towards the Association. We don’t care.

Let it go. He has the awful AMFA and you have the Association. Enough already.

 

[1AA]

Let's be honest Weazz, even though Swarat will never admit it, AMP is a pipe dream, just like me wanting the Teamsters back at SWA, their Association is here to stay just like AMFA is here at SWA. You have to admire the IAM taking care of their members. Just like AMFA getting our seniority over the Airtran guys. However as SWA hires more and more mechanics, that group will grow to hate the fake 4 years seniority.

Industrial unionism has run its coarse for the AMT'S. It's now time for class and craft unions to represent their specific class. It's a one sided issue between unions and big business because the government is fighting unions now more than ever. Unfortunately whenever we try at any airline to better ourselves you get the nut jobs mostly from the unskilled industrial union supporters who have most to loose against us because they fear loosin dues over better representation. At least you voted for union representation. Think about the guys at UPS who did vote and their votes were overturned from a majority No to a yes by constitutional rule. I don't know what's worse. UPS voting and results overturned or the association forced on us without a membership vote. I'm sure the Samsonite baggage repositioning engineer will defend the association and discredit AMFA, AMP and ALTA. That's what union back side lip contactors who are looking for higher positions in the union do. If you don't like AMFA then do something about it. Don't cry on AA's AMT'S shoulder for sympathy. We have our own issues to deal with.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

See the attachment from 2012 and the Graph on page 5. Notice the IAM Pension Fund as audited by Credit Suisse in 2012

2012? Dude, this 2018, soon to be 2019! Just like your 401k... post 911 market volatility played a roll.

everyone here knows how much anger you have towards the Association. We don’t care.

The company has a lot of "anger" toward the association as well... especially since they won't just bend over the table for them!

 

[WeAAsles]

2012? Dude, this 2018, soon to be 2019! Just like your 401k... post 911 market volatility played a roll.


The company has a lot of "anger" toward the association as well... especially since they won't just bend over the table for them!

Yea and we got “Bad Salesman” here who wants to try to help the Company through division. Although they are just such incredibly bad salesmen that they really aren’t doing anything whatsoever except spinning laughable wheels and wasting bandwidth.

 

[WeAAsles]

Industrial unionism has run its coarse for the AMT'S. It's now time for class and craft unions to represent their specific class. It's a one sided issue between unions and big business because the government is fighting unions now more than ever. Unfortunately whenever we try at any airline to better ourselves you get the nut jobs mostly from the unskilled industrial union supporters who have most to loose against us because they fear loosin dues over better representation. At least you voted for union representation. Think about the guys at UPS who did vote and their votes were overturned from a majority No to a yes by constitutional rule. I don't know what's worse. UPS voting and results overturned or the association forced on us without a membership vote. I'm sure the Samsonite baggage repositioning engineer will defend the association and discredit AMFA, AMP and ALTA. That's what union back side lip contactors who are looking for higher positions in the union do. If you don't like AMFA then do something about it. Don't cry on AA's AMT'S shoulder for sympathy. We have our own issues to deal with.

No defense or discredit “Bad Salesman” just hitting you with reality as I enjoy my morning coffee doing my Laundry before work.

Reality is:

AMP and ALTA don’t exist. (See DOL website)

AMFA (NWA story) now at 6 years and counting of Negotiations over at SWA Representing only around 2,500 people there.

That’s reality. Reality.

You’re a “Bad Salesman”

 

[PIEDMONT784]

LAA does not want the IAMPF,

Dude, are you telling this forum that you were elected, and authorized by the LAA membership to function as a representative on their behalf? Are you officially authorized to relay their sentiments regarding this matter? What is your official position and title within the TWU?

Weez... is Buck an officer within the TWU?

Yea and we got “Bad Salesman” here who wants to try to help the Company through division. Although they are just such incredibly bad salesmen that they really aren’t doing anything whatsoever except spinning laughable wheels and wasting bandwidth.

Weez... I think the whole plan backfired -- all their tactics did, was make the association more resolute!

 

[WeAAsles]

Let's be honest Weazz, even though Swarat will never admit it, AMP is a pipe dream, just like me wanting the Teamsters back at SWA, their Association is here to stay just like AMFA is here at SWA. You have to admire the IAM taking care of their members. Just like AMFA getting our seniority over the Airtran guys. However as SWA hires more and more mechanics, that group will grow to hate the fake 4 years seniority.

Actually driver you’re the one that really shouldn’t be seeing a pipe dream cause it’s all about the numbers.

For you to ever get the IBT back you only need to get around 1,250 cards signed where these guys here need to get around 7,000 (or more) in the space of one year.

If you guys ever went for it you would be going after an established Union that has a History you can look at and research. You can look at the UAL and UPS agreements and see if you want to join the organization working on and responsible for those agreements. (Talking IBT here because I know that’s your choice)

These guys here and “Bad Salesman” are the ones living the pipe dream for real. When they dropped the AMFA push and went with this AMP stuff I knew they finally jumped the shark.

They really think they’re going to get over 6000 people to sign a showing of interest on an idea that hasn’t even registered with the DOL and doesn’t exist or represent anyone? Lol. Aw c’mon now. Lol.