American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[AANOTOK]

Isn't this Association thing just wonderful, running like a well oiled machine...SMH!

 

[cltrat]

You know what’s sad AAnotok? I don’t really think if either Union was in charge it would be much better

 

[bob@las-AA]

fwiw. see what happens when you say you are voting yes? you get hammered. Look, im not going to call you names like the others, but i also know you are in the vast majority insomuch that i think few fleet would support a picket or rally. I think the association knows that.
But even though many lus would even vote yes to grab the money....THE OFFER SUCKS.
Why pay dues if we dont keep pt restrictions and good health care?

I can string together shift swaps for a 6th week of vacation.

Bob, im hoping we dont get to vot. I think our mx generally are pissed off and may vote it down but very few rampers are upset and are wondering why they cant vote plus too many of the younger ones are excited about the $3,000.
Im usually big on democracy, but for reasons above, i hope there isnt a vote on that offer.

Tim, you are welcome to express you thoughts as an opinion, but I don't see a vote any time soon, and that stems from the viewing of the State of the Airline. The company's offer was pure genius, and I believe what Parker is saying, not the union. And I also believe what Isom said, they never said that this is a take it or leave it offer, they wanted to make it known to the membership just what the "Comprehensive Proposal" was. the company publishing this info, to me, adds a level of transparency to this process, and yes it may go against, the unions unwritten rules to never tip your hand. The union is saying "this is what we are going to get" and the company is saying "this is what we are going to give you...period" No one can argue differently, that the company has ALL the power, and nothing can or will change that. The company wants 5000 MX jobs, they will get them, they also want catering, deicing, they too will get them. Just remember Parker gave a hint to the association to hurry up, he said "Jet fuel is rising" with his finger pointing up. Now at the end of the day, it is in my opinion that the association is in between a rock and a hard place, knowing that there can be only one winner in this game, knowing they union has no leverage, and also knowing that the items the company wants they will eventually get, despite the half baked attempts to display power and authority and give the allusion to the membership that they can control the course of negotiation. I had said this before, the position that the association is in now makes them vary vulnerable, and places a huge target on the backs of all involved with this negotiation, to save face, they just drag their feet till it gets to arbitration, and let them force the will of the company on us, because if it gets that far, they always side with the company, and you cant dispute that.

 

[B737 driver]

You know what’s sad AAnotok? I don’t really think if either Union was in charge it would be much better

You're correct Rat, it is a business all unions are. They sell the package to the members and the machine keeps moving. Take our situation at SWA, the company wanted a five year pay freeze for our competitors to catch up. They got that. If this offer passes AMFA looks like a hero getting us a raise, and keeping our scope. So both the company and the Union win.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

And your wages were?
Also FWIW, Crandall and his innovative "B" scale took place prior to Lorenzo

my wages prior to the lus standalone contract and after the merger were what lus was brought up to. i was at $24 something/hr.

the point i'm making with tim nelson is that he can bad-mouth current iam big-shooters and the twu as he lays his foundation for personally running this airline's fsc & amt union in the future, but sometimes, there's no need to go overboard for personal ambition.

 

[NYer]

my main point is, there's no winning without some give backs. One side has been rumored to already agreed to some give backs. Let alone their healthcare. the answer is tough but simple, your being deluded by the other union too if you don't wake up to the fight. GP is about to lose too. Early outs are the best for everyone as long as full time/ot saved for members.

Well, I have no delusions about the reality of the situation and how this process works. Some believe that if you repeat things over and over that somehow they become a reality. You can fight and fight, but at some point, that fight needs to turn away from an "all or nothing" campaign to a "get the maximum return" campaign.

Trouble is, 'tough guy' unionism gets people elected, being truthful about the situation doesn't.

 

[Tim Nelson]

i was in high school when lorenzo bought continental...but when i got hired, i heard the stories. even in more 'labor-friendly' times of the early 1980s, pilots crossed the line.

blame the twu/aa, but i'd say that what happened with lorenzo/continental, set the table...and the 'b' scale was reactionary.

i applaud the iam for looking out for it's members' seniority...but the iam had your wages at $20/hr just a few years ago?

if not for the association, us iam would have been extremely hosed. The twu stuck by our stand alone talks to further all of our interest. We owe the twu nothing, it was mutual to advance. Ws owe the company nothing either.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Well, I have no delusions about the reality of the situation and how this process works. Some believe that if you repeat things over and over that somehow they become a reality. You can fight and fight, but at some point, that fight needs to turn away from an "all or nothing" campaign to a "get the maximum return" campaign.

Trouble is, 'tough guy' unionism gets people elected, being truthful about the situation doesn't.

+1

 

[ALUS78]

You know what’s sad AAnotok? I don’t really think if either Union was in charge it would be much better

With less infighting we probably would have voted on something by now.Probably not good for us IAM folk

 

[ALUS78]

Tim, you are welcome to express you thoughts as an opinion, but I don't see a vote any time soon, and that stems from the viewing of the State of the Airline. The company's offer was pure genius, and I believe what Parker is saying, not the union. And I also believe what Isom said, they never said that this is a take it or leave it offer, they wanted to make it known to the membership just what the "Comprehensive Proposal" was. the company publishing this info, to me, adds a level of transparency to this process, and yes it may go against, the unions unwritten rules to never tip your hand. The union is saying "this is what we are going to get" and the company is saying "this is what we are going to give you...period" No one can argue differently, that the company has ALL the power, and nothing can or will change that. The company wants 5000 MX jobs, they will get them, they also want catering, deicing, they too will get them. Just remember Parker gave a hint to the association to hurry up, he said "Jet fuel is rising" with his finger pointing up. Now at the end of the day, it is in my opinion that the association is in between a rock and a hard place, knowing that there can be only one winner in this game, knowing they union has no leverage, and also knowing that the items the company wants they will eventually get, despite the half baked attempts to display power and authority and give the allusion to the membership that they can control the course of negotiation. I had said this before, the position that the association is in now makes them vary vulnerable, and places a huge target on the backs of all involved with this negotiation, to save face, they just drag their feet till it gets to arbitration, and let them force the will of the company on us, because if it gets that far, they always side with the company, and you cant dispute that.
View attachment 12789

Never ever see arbitration never.There will be improvements to this proposal

 

[anotherdelay]

Well, I have no delusions about the reality of the situation and how this process works. Some believe that if you repeat things over and over that somehow they become a reality. You can fight and fight, but at some point, that fight needs to turn away from an "all or nothing" campaign to a "get the maximum return" campaign.

Trouble is, 'tough guy' unionism gets people elected, being truthful about the situation doesn't.

Look it's time for Peterson and you, because I think you and Peterson are both very capable to get and need to majorly takeover. Its also time to quit the Iam crap, they bring nothing but head aches to the table. Peterson has to make his case, in a business way to TEXAS and OKLAHOMA and MIAMI, what's at stake with too much outsourcing. He should go to the papers and explain his position on the outsourcing. Why he went to Ord and NY is beyond me. In the end the 3 states if they're not crazy social wise heavy which I don't think Dfw is yet, Mia???. In the end there's a medium and pressure points for sides. But kowtowing to understanding to anything Iam is why this will continue. The offer on the table is genius by managment,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, you are welcome to express you thoughts as an opinion, but I don't see a vote any time soon, and that stems from the viewing of the State of the Airline. The company's offer was pure genius, and I believe what Parker is saying, not the union. And I also believe what Isom said, they never said that this is a take it or leave it offer, they wanted to make it known to the membership just what the "Comprehensive Proposal" was. the company publishing this info, to me, adds a level of transparency to this process, and yes it may go against, the unions unwritten rules to never tip your hand. The union is saying "this is what we are going to get" and the company is saying "this is what we are going to give you...period" No one can argue differently, that the company has ALL the power, and nothing can or will change that. The company wants 5000 MX jobs, they will get them, they also want catering, deicing, they too will get them. Just remember Parker gave a hint to the association to hurry up, he said "Jet fuel is rising" with his finger pointing up. Now at the end of the day, it is in my opinion that the association is in between a rock and a hard place, knowing that there can be only one winner in this game, knowing they union has no leverage, and also knowing that the items the company wants they will eventually get, despite the half baked attempts to display power and authority and give the allusion to the membership that they can control the course of negotiation. I had said this before, the position that the association is in now makes them vary vulnerable, and places a huge target on the backs of all involved with this negotiation, to save face, they just drag their feet till it gets to arbitration, and let them force the will of the company on us, because if it gets that far, they always side with the company, and you cant dispute that.
View attachment 12789

yea but i feel we lus already won. Our leverage is that we really have little reason to negotiate. Parker wants a new deal? Sooooo what!. He isnt going to itch my ear after he gave us money and pretty much everything else unless he gives me more. Who among lus really cares about negotiations and why should they?
Yaaaawwwwnn nn. Im more excited about fantasy football coming up, bob.

 

[anotherdelay]

yea but i feel we lus already won. Our leverage is that we really have little reason to negotiate. Parker wants a new deal? Sooooo what!. He isnt going to itch my ear after he gave us money and pretty much everything else unless he gives me more. Who among lus really cares about negotiations and why should they?
Yaaaawwwwnn nn. Im more excited about fantasy football coming up, bob.

yeah, i agree about your leverage, Gp had some terrible lapses in judgement when he became polyannish about the medical., and also not realizing he's been being played. that stops if he starts negoiting from the TEXAS/Okie/MIa side, (TWU) and within reason. Stop the two master side and we all win.

 

[Tim Nelson]

yeah, i agree about your leverage, Gp had some terrible lapses in judgement when he became polyannish about the medical., and also not realizing he's been being played. that stops if he starts negoiting from the TEXAS/Okie/MIa side, (TWU) and within reason. Stop the two master side and we all win.

true. but gary got collared and is now a altar boy ringing bells. He went for the money grab for his family.

 

[bob@las-AA]

yea but i feel we lus already won. Our leverage is that we really have little reason to negotiate. Parker wants a new deal? Sooooo what!. He isnt going to itch my ear after he gave us money and pretty much everything else unless he gives me more. Who among lus really cares about negotiations and why should they?
Yaaaawwwwnn nn. Im more excited about fantasy football coming up, bob.

So Tim, have they announced the next round of IAM pension cuts yet.