American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

Why didn’t you and your handlers organize the rest of Envoy TWU was already on the property

Aren’t you an organizer with the union

Why the hostility? Do you have a problem with someone asking for and providing you information?

I’m a TWU dues paying Member and supporter. Nothing more than that. I have no clue if the TWU was ever interested in organizing those workers although I doubt it.

And FYI. Prior to the Merger the CWA lost a vote to represent AA PSA. If there hadn’t been a merger that group of employees would still be unrepresented today along with I suspect American Eagle upstairs (Envoy would not exist)

“During 2007, AMR began studying ways to spin American Eagle Airlines off into a separate company, including, but not limited to, the possibilities of selling the company to either stockholders or to an unaffiliated third party. In 2008, AMR said any plans had been put on hold until the airline industry stabilized after the worldwide financial crisis. In July 2011, AMR announced the spin-off of American Eagle Airlines but those plans were again put on hold when Parent AMR Corp. filed for bankruptcy in November 2011. In 2014 the company changed its name to Envoy Air Inc., but American Eagle continues to live on as a brand, as well as livery for Envoy-operated and third party-operated regional flights.”

 

[WeAAsles]

Pre merge AA Passengers Service Agents voted to be represented by CWA.

I was talking about the vote back in 2013 before the merger.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/american-airlines-agents-narrowly-reject-union-bid/

I was friends with one of your organizers here in MIA. Joy Edery.

Question? Aren’t your gate assistants supposed to be CARS? Are these Envoy shirts I see at the gate only doing wheelchairs?

The separation seems to be sort of blurry to me? You have your OC, then a PSA, then a CAR, and finally an Envoy all at the gate?

Sorry, under the impression you had an organizing gig

That’s because little Timmy Nelson likes to claim that I’m working for Unions all over America.

Nope. Just a FSC in MIA.

 

[WeAAsles]

Don’t want to address to many CWA topics on this thread because you might freak-out like in the past

wheelchair and unaccompanied minors work can be outsourced

providing connecting passengers with gate information can be outsorced


assisting international passengers through customs/immigration, including baggage recheck
can be outsorced


transporting of checked baggage above the wing
can be outsorced


delivery of boarding passes, international flight documents and customs/immigration forms
can be outsorced

cart/vehicle transportation of customers
can be outsorced

Language stateing any other passenger assistance or station work not listed can be outsourced

All concessions under the new contract

Never freaked out on you, just tried to get through the fact that you guys had a shotgun wedding where your mate brought nothing at all to the marriage. IMO your LUS Contract got decimated in Scope so your new mate could get some clothes put on.

John John I can find you a ton of people who can’t stand the fact we’re stuck with you and I’m sure you can find just as many on your side. Doesn’t change the fact that we don’t run the business. We’re just the little gears, cogs and grease making the machine run.

Anyway so what jobs specifically belong to CARS or do they have no language to protect any work?

BTW how many Stations are currently CWA Mainline staffed?

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok I think I could figure out Mandarin Chinese faster than trying to figure all of this out.

http://unionhall.cwalocals.org/system/files/article_4_groups_classification.pdf

John John one more question? Since the TA was ratified have your overall PSA numbers grown or shrunk?

 

[WeAAsles]

YUP! That is by design

Good luck with that

Fact is the company has the flexibility to shrink Customer Service Agents numbers if they want without much change to the operation by outsourcing and redirecting the work groups

You don’t like to answer questions do you? You know you could have answered the questions and also added the soapbox speeches and I would have been very cool with that.

Might have even sympathized.

 

[LuvnTheSky]

Let's not forget who was one of the three TWU Presidents who knew about this ridiculous ASS-ociation before it was told to the the others and had no problem becoming a part of the CWA because his nose was so far up Jim Little's behind. This is the same clown running for re-election in Miami and now wants "transparency." Is it any wonder those who ran with him last time (both his VPs) are running away from him this time?

 

[Buck]

Couldn't tell you, Buck, you tell me?

It is probably like you state standard language. I believe my point is that, How can there be an agreement made for the operation of the contractual workforce if the company has "sole jurisdiction"?

ARTICLE 28 – NO DISCRIMINATION, AND RECOGNITION OF RIGHTS AND COMPLIANCE

(b) The Union recognizes that the Company will have sole jurisdiction of the management and operation of its business, the direction of its working force, the right to maintain discipline and efficiency in its hangars, stations, shops, or other places of employment, and the right of the Company to hire, discipline, and discharge employees for just cause, subject to the provisions of this Agreement. It is agreed that the rights enumerated in this Article will not be deemed to exclude other preexisting rights of management not enumerated which do not conflict with other provisions of this Agreement.

 

[B737 driver]

It is probably like you state standard language. I believe my point is that, How can there be an agreement made for the operation of the contractual workforce if the company has "sole jurisdiction"?

ARTICLE 28 – NO DISCRIMINATION, AND RECOGNITION OF RIGHTS AND COMPLIANCE

(b) The Union recognizes that the Company will have sole jurisdiction of the management and operation of its business, the direction of its working force, the right to maintain discipline and efficiency in its hangars, stations, shops, or other places of employment, and the right of the Company to hire, discipline, and discharge employees for just cause, subject to the provisions of this Agreement. It is agreed that the rights enumerated in this Article will not be deemed to exclude other preexisting rights of management not enumerated which do not conflict with other provisions of this Agreement.

You would need a LOA to cover for what is not in the main body of the contract for say station protections, and since a contract doesn't expire, it would protect you even if it became amenable , until you can renegotiate.

 

[Buck]

You would need a LOA to cover for what is not in the main body of the contract for say station protections, and since a contract doesn't expire, it would protect you even if it became amenable , until you can renegotiate.

That makes sense, I have always wondered why it is there in the first pl;ace.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

Colonel I’m sorry, again what city are you in?

And the TWU does monitor Station flight activity but that currently wouldn’t have anything to do with the NC per se. Those are grievances to restaff that have to work there way through.

I wish you guys all the best in your Negotiations. I think the imperative for you all is you need to gain a flow through agreement. Having to resign from Envoy and reapply for AA is complete BS.

BTW is Andrew Rangolan on your NC?

I'm in IAH. Andrew isnt. I believe he was working on the last Southwest contract. We have Dan Rivera from 570, Gilbert Huertas 571, and Roy Nichols from 575. The flow through agreement is very important. Did they snatch it in bankruptcy? A couple of guys who moved to mainline claim they kept their hire date along with the pay scale for years of service. It sounds like fantasy though.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

Wow and we think the Company doesn’t meet with us often enough. In the August update they mention the MIA Wheelchair attendants so that answers that question.

https://envoyagents.org/category/bargaining-updates/

They are representing operations as well.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

colonel.ramp, if i had it my way, i'd promote you to general.

there are some quality envoy workers i work with in my work area, but overall, they'd rather play cards and dominoes than ramp premium intl. bags. the fact of the matter is, they rarely get disciplined because envoy desperately needs as many heads as possible in ord.

recent (july 2018) stats from the government tell us that out of 12 airlines reporting, envoy is dead last as far as MBR, and out of 17 airlines reporting, 16th as far as % of cancelled flights.

excluding the poor customer service from a service company, the money is a huge hit. $45-$50 these days for 1 burned bag? add in new rules from the government that an airline MUST refund the baggage fee if a bag is not returned within 12 hrs (domestic)/24 hrs (intl). i believe those are the parameters..12 and 24 hrs.

all i see is aa growing envoy/eagle more out of ord. so, more of the above.

Thank you Crema. I haven't seen those numbers in terms of being last in MBR. I can tell you for fact that there is a huge difference from 4 years ago. That list is not telling the whole story. For instance we are considered a hybrid station because we operate the most mainline flights for Envoy. Our MBR is consistently under goal which is at a too damn low 2.1 during a holiday month. Smh. We implemented a bar code system to scan bags for each flight. American nor Envoy was creative enough to figure out the MBR issue so we invented it. We have some ORD transfers here and one in particular is lazy. However if you watch the other Envoy out stations at work, you'd be amazed anyone works that hard for less than McDonald's pay.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

colonel.ramp, if i had it my way, i'd promote you to general.

there are some quality envoy workers i work with in my work area, but overall, they'd rather play cards and dominoes than ramp premium intl. bags. the fact of the matter is, they rarely get disciplined because envoy desperately needs as many heads as possible in ord.

recent (july 2018) stats from the government tell us that out of 12 airlines reporting, envoy is dead last as far as MBR, and out of 17 airlines reporting, 16th as far as % of cancelled flights.

excluding the poor customer service from a service company, the money is a huge hit. $45-$50 these days for 1 burned bag? add in new rules from the government that an airline MUST refund the baggage fee if a bag is not returned within 12 hrs (domestic)/24 hrs (intl). i believe those are the parameters..12 and 24 hrs.

all i see is aa growing envoy/eagle more out of ord. so, more of the above.

Also remember that Envoy is an airline wholly owned by AA not just a service company like a DGS or Swissport. I'm seeing a couple of guys calling it a contract company which is false on it face. It's merely a subdivision that's used to prevent paying livable premium wages not seen by the company as relevant enough to compensate for hard work and solid performance.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

All Envoy frontline employees are union now! Agents above the wing and below the wing

Envoy Express and Piedmont Express are contractors and bid on contracts to outsource the handling of ground operations

That is not correct. Where are you getting your information? Many Envoy stations are still non union below the wing. Envoy and Piedmont are airlines and wholly owned subsidiaries of AAG. Many would like to liken the two to DGS or Swissport but it is not. Doug Parker has stopped the practice of doing ground work for other airlines. The bidding your talking about is merely a in house ploy to pay lower wages where they should otherwise be enlarging the current scope for mainline workers. So like it our not we are all one family. Regardless of the semantics.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

I was talking about the vote back in 2013 before the merger.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/american-airlines-agents-narrowly-reject-union-bid/

I was friends with one of your organizers here in MIA. Joy Edery.

Question? Aren’t your gate assistants supposed to be CARS? Are these Envoy shirts I see at the gate only doing wheelchairs?

The separation seems to be sort of blurry to me? You have your OC, then a PSA, then a CAR, and finally an Envoy all at the gate?



That’s because little Timmy Nelson likes to claim that I’m working for Unions all over America.

Nope. Just a FSC in MIA.

The agents in the red shirts at least here are called baggage hygiene agents. Our previous AA GM years ago requested Envoy to supply them for lazy AA and US ticket counter agents who were too good to place bags on the belt. Basically they are a concierge service for AA upstairs. Our BSO is staffed with Envoy agents as well