American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[cltrat]

I can guarantee your CC,s won’t like it.Hell I wouldn’t either if I had the gig they’ve had. Better hope that defined half hour lunch you guys enjoy stays, or you’ll be shoveling it down best way you can like can happen here.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Please don’t take offense but I think philosophically the IAM seems to be a little too Management friendly for my tastes. That proposal seems to be loaded with language that lets the CSM tell me what to do where in the TWU books we answer to ourselves (The Crew Chief)

“When and where so directed” = Management can tell me what to do.

And language that allows them to float in and out of our CBA doesn’t mean they’re getting a second chance, it means they have a lifeline. It almost encourages people to take the Management road knowing the repercussions are only the loss of a couple of bucks if they get knocked back.

I understand we had no choice on this Association and in life you need to learn to make the best of things (adapt) but I never thought the incorporation of the IAM language meant the TWU could lose its entire identity.

Ugh just the thought of some goofball know nothing CSM telling me what to do gives me the skeeves.

Weez, you will finally have to stay with your team. The russian girls in the concourse arent worth it anyways.
I have a fundamental difference with you though on when and where as Im all about more work. You guys can refuse doing things not in your contract and that has really limited progress.
We have alot of work that is in addition to our contract and thats a good thing and creates thousands of jobs.
Because of this we do alot of express work, charters, aircraft cleaning on ron and much more but you guys only get the occassional charter that your local may or may not agree to work. Phl does a bunch of when directed and dca lga and clt.

Ease up and try to get more work. It helps everyone.

 

[AANOTOK]

Well rat that language has already been TA’d so I guess it’s going to have to come along as part of the overall consideration I’m going to have to make when I finally do get to vote on the whole package.

Like I said. Philosophically it’s just something I’m going to have to get used to I guess.

We do have a few CC’s that should go Management here anyway. They don’t belong with us. We even have Super Crew Chief in our Station. The guy who won $10,000 going above and beyond. They even put his name up in lights on Jetnet. Dude is married to a CSM.

So am I to assume our (TWU) negotiators did not fight that extreme change in language and simply watched as the article was TA'd.
Yep W, the Association is stealing your/our identity. Oh and by the way, that is how unionism works isn't it, the minority language stays.
I'm afraid W, you will have even more complaints as we move forward. Maybe eventually you will realize that us greedy bastard were complaining about other things and not the money...que sera sera!

 

[robbedagain]

You should be worried about it , as should any TWU station. These idiot CSM,s they keep hiring in Clt are beyond stupid. I can guarantee you the average LAA cc will come unglued if they have to deal with all the chit I do.

They already do here in DCA if not daily every other day

 

[robbedagain]

Tim. Here in DCA we dont have when n where. Since Ive been here we load unload n kick out planes . Often we will help another crew. A 3rd party contractor. ABM cleans all out planes. Lav n water done by different group. Id like to see more work but remember the baffoon mgmt running this airline is burying it.

 

[Kev3188]

Weez, you will finally have to stay with your team. The russian girls in the concourse arent worth it anyways.
I have a fundamental difference with you though on when and where as Im all about more work. You guys can refuse doing things not in your contract and that has really limited progress.
We have alot of work that is in addition to our contract and thats a good thing and creates thousands of jobs.
Because of this we do alot of express work, charters, aircraft cleaning on ron and much more but you guys only get the occassional charter that your local may or may not agree to work. Phl does a bunch of when directed and dca lga and clt.

Ease up and try to get more work. It helps everyone.

People like him never think that way. We had a great CBA at NW, but still did a TON of work not covered as well. That led to a lot of jobs, but also a lot of $$$ for those interested in picking up the hours.

As for Crew Chiefs, I can't imagine them not being a working part of the crew. I was one for most of my career, and I can't imagine just staying inside while my team did the work. "Window chief" is one of the worst things you can be called here...

 

[WeAAsles]

So am I to assume our (TWU) negotiators did not fight that extreme change in language and simply watched as the article was TA'd.
Yep W, the Association is stealing your/our identity. Oh and by the way, that is how unionism works isn't it, the minority language stays.
I'm afraid W, you will have even more complaints as we move forward. Maybe eventually you will realize that us greedy bastard were complaining about other things and not the money...que sera sera!

You know I already knew about much of the language that the Company now threw out there anyway. So much of it wasn’t exactly a secret. I’ll admit I didn’t know that the Company had put “Status” Protection into the Agreement though (Very important) and someone else had told me that they were negotiating and thought they would gain a 25% PT Cap in the Hubs which I guess must have changed around the time they offered the status Protection?

Both TWU and IAM guys fought or argued for their philosophies to survive. Remember it’s not necessarily that either side is wrong more than it’s just what they believe is right. Or more A type personalities on one side and Management that supports what they’re more accustomed too. (Remember Al thinks we’re soft work wise on the TWU side)

An IAM guy told me once that their belief is that it should be Management who manages and not our guys taking on that role. Again like rat said and you and I also know most of the lower level CSM’s are clueless or Policy Puppets now. The great old School Supervisors are long gone.

 

[we're screwed]

I can guarantee your CC,s won’t like it.Hell I wouldn’t either if I had the gig they’ve had. Better hope that defined half hour lunch you guys enjoy stays, or you’ll be shoveling it down best way you can like can happen here.

Then make my shift 8 hours instead of 8.5 and I will.

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez, you will finally have to stay with your team. The russian girls in the concourse arent worth it anyways.
I have a fundamental difference with you though on when and where as Im all about more work. You guys can refuse doing things not in your contract and that has really limited progress.
We have alot of work that is in addition to our contract and thats a good thing and creates thousands of jobs.
Because of this we do alot of express work, charters, aircraft cleaning on ron and much more but you guys only get the occassional charter that your local may or may not agree to work. Phl does a bunch of when directed and dca lga and clt.

Ease up and try to get more work. It helps everyone.

The Company needs to clear up and explain precisely the meaning of their “When and where so directed” language? It’s currently too ambiguous for what we are used to on our side where we prefer solid language.

Under what circumstances and under what parameters would Local Management be able to pull the “WAWSD” trigger? Would the Local be informed that Management intended to place more work on our plate and for how long would that exist? Would there be a penalty if we were bailing out a vendor and what equipment would be provided for us? Would language exist that we need to be trained on that equipment?

And you may have more work Tim but you guys bust your asses from what I’ve seen and heard. I’m cool with all the work we can find but I want the manpower to do that work safely and at an acceptable pace. I don’t want some pinhead CSM thinking he can crack the whip just because he thinks this Mule won’t bite him any more.

The language for Class 2 cities sucks BTW and you know it.

 

[WeAAsles]

On the Crew Chief language it’s not necessarily that CC’s don’t need to do a little bit of work to keep in shape since the language does already exist in TWU land that the CC will “assist” the crew.

Actually I don’t care for the ambiguity of that language myself.

What I don’t agree with is the language specifically placing the actions of the Crew solely in the hands of the Chief. I’m not a CC myself but here in MIA the CC’s get no backing if they have a POS on their crew causing delays.

If Management backed Crew Chiefs and what they tell them a little more maybe I wouldn’t have as much of a problem with that language?

But again that should be fleshed out more that the CC is not to take the place of a needed member of the crew for any longer than a short period of time that Management needs to replace the man down.

 

[WeAAsles]

I can guarantee your CC,s won’t like it.Hell I wouldn’t either if I had the gig they’ve had. Better hope that defined half hour lunch you guys enjoy stays, or you’ll be shoveling it down best way you can like can happen here.

Then make my shift 8 hours instead of 8.5 and I will.

The language survives including bringing back our old Paid Lunch.

When it finally gets implemented congratulations to the IAM side for finally being able to freakin eat at a more civilized time frame.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh and BTW another piece of language survives from the TWU side that I remember some heated debate on here years back because.

“No Strike, No Lockout” survives.

 

[dfw gen]

So your issue with transparency then falls to the NMB who approved the Association as our bargaining agent.

No the nmb followed the law. The iam and the twu used the check off cards you signed when you got hired as a "sign of interest" in the associatio . There was a 30 period allotted for an intervener to submit cards. The iam and the twu took a gamble that there was no way in 30 days that could be accomplished. What the did was completely legal. They just used a loop hole in the system against us.

 

[dfw gen]

Please don’t take offense but I think philosophically the IAM seems to be a little too Management friendly for my tastes. That proposal seems to be loaded with language that lets the CSM tell me what to do where in the TWU books we answer to ourselves (The Crew Chief)

“When and where so directed” = Management can tell me what to do.

And language that allows them to float in and out of our CBA doesn’t mean they’re getting a second chance, it means they have a lifeline. It almost encourages people to take the Management road knowing the repercussions are only the loss of a couple of bucks if they get knocked back.

I understand we had no choice on this Association and in life you need to learn to make the best of things (adapt) but I never thought the incorporation of the IAM language meant the TWU could lose its entire identity.

Ugh just the thought of some goofball know nothing CSM telling me what to do gives me the skeeves.

Welcome to maintenance!

 

[WeAAsles]

No the nmb followed the law. The iam and the twu used the check off cards you signed when you got hired as a "sign of interest" in the associatio . There was a 30 period allotted for an intervener to submit cards. The iam and the twu took a gamble that there was no way in 30 days that could be accomplished. What the did was completely legal. They just used a loop hole in the system against us.

Even if the TWU has filed to represent the entire Classes and Crafts their would have been 30 days for an intervenor to step in.

Just because of the sheer size of our groups it would be absolutely impossible to gain all of those cards in such a short window of time.

Personally even a year which is the current time frame for signed cards to drop off is too short for the size. Just look at how long they’ve been trying at Delta FA’s and Ramp.