American plane loses panel in flight, flies to Paris

[AMFAMAN]

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/200...-aa-panel_N.htm

American plane loses panel in flight, flies to Paris

DALLAS — American Airlines is investigating how a jet bound for Paris lost a panel from its belly shortly after taking off from Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport before continuing on across the Atlantic.
Airline officials say the pilot thought the loud noises during the flight last month were due to cargo shifting, and in an internal memo they defended the crew.

A flight attendant on the April 20 trip said there was "a loud shaking noise from the belly of the plane." A few minutes later, there was another noise that "sounded like an explosion," the attendant said in an e-mail, according to Dallas television station WFAA.

When the Boeing 767 landed safely in Paris after the nine-hour flight, ground crews discovered the panel about two feet by three feet and covering one of two air conditioners was gone.

In a statement, the airline said it was investigating the incident and wouldn't comment further.

Officials in the airline's flight department told pilots in a memo obtained by The Associated Press that the captain "did exactly what we want our captains to do."

"There was no way this crew could have known this panel had departed," said the memo from Jim Kaiser, American's manager of flight operations quality control, and Chuck Harman, the airline's fleet captain for Boeing 757 and 767 planes. "If they had known, they obviously would have returned" to DFW Airport.

According to the memo, no cockpit warning lights came on, and the pilot, who was not identified, also spoke to a maintenance technician in Fort Worth.

Kaiser and Harman, who are both pilots, said while pictures of the hole in the fuselage "are very dramatic," the passengers were never in danger.

A source at the airline, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to talk about the incident, said neither the captain nor other pilots who were on the flight as passengers noticed any unusual vibrations.

With a full load of fuel, the pilot would have been forced to circle DFW Airport while burning fuel, so he decided to keep heading toward the East Coast believing that he could make an emergency landing at any of several airports along the way, the official said.

Three hours into the flight, with no additional noises and the plane appearing to be burning fuel at a normal rate, the pilot decided the noise had probably been something shifting in the cargo hold, and he decided to continue across the Atlantic, the official said.

After the plane landed, a flight attendant snapped pictures of the missing panel, and the photos began circulating in e-mails between American Airlines employees.

Officials with the pilots' and flight attendants' unions did not immediately return messages for comment.

The incident on the Paris-bound flight occurred only a week after American canceled about 3,300 flights while it grounded its fleet of MD-80 jets to inspect electrical wiring.

 

[eolesen]

The pilot decided to keep going? Aren't the pilots the ones who took out ads and put up a billboard questionining the company's commitment to safety?....

 

[local 12 proud]

Looks like some minor structure damage where the piece of honeycomb is still attached. Wonder if this was caused by delamination or did someone forget to put the fastners back after working in that area?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Depending on the time of "dusk", they should have done a "fly by" somewhere, so a tower could have confirmed, what they found out in CDG ! (IMHO)

 

[Bob Owens]

The pilot decided to keep going? Aren't the pilots the ones who took out ads and put up a billboard questionining the company's commitment to safety?....

Well if a pilot air interupted just because he heard a noise and there was no indication or vibration problems the chief pilot would probably have him in a hearing.

He had no way of knowing that the panel was missing nor did the missing panel put anyone on that plane at risk. Worst case scenario is they burned a little extra fuel.

 

[CloudyCoffee]

Well if a pilot air interupted just because he heard a noise and there was no indication or vibration problems the chief pilot would probably have him in a hearing.

He had no way of knowing that the panel was missing nor did the missing panel put anyone on that plane at risk. Worst case scenario is they burned a little extra fuel.

Part of APFA report about incident:

.......The cockpit apparently heard
the noise as well and talked it over Tulsa Tech. The pilots and TUL
Tech thought it may have been a cargo shift of some sort...........
"the investigation continues into what failed may have caused the
panel to depart the aircraft."
"We checked the fuel burn on this particular flight and it
was not much more than any other flight so that wouldn't have given
them any clues. I have reviewed the ACARS messages between the
flight and dispatch and the radio/phone patch conversations between
the flight and dispatch and tech.
The captain took the situation very seriously and only continued the
flight after consulting with ground personnel and determining there
were no system malfunctions or other indications of continuing
problems. He sent one of the pilots back to check for any unusual
vibrations or noises and he didn't feel/hear anything wrong. If
anyone had suspected the damage they found on arrival they would have
certainly returned to DFW. While the pictures are very dramatic there
was no danger to the airplane or crew.
Based on all I have researched I think the captain made a reasonable
decision with the information he had available to him. It is human
nature to respond to the photos with the thought they should have
diverted but the facts are that the captain had to work with what he
knew."

 

[Mach85ER]

The pilot decided to keep going? Aren't the pilots the ones who took out ads and put up a billboard questionining the company's commitment to safety?....

Yes, they probably had four hours of land underneath them before leaving eastern Canada.

Are you actually implying that you have the slightest clue of a command decison in a situation like this?

 

[nbmcg01]

Yes, they probably had four hours of land underneath them before leaving eastern Canada.

Are you actually implying that you have the slightest clue of a command decison in a situation like this?

Airplanes make noises. Sometimes loud ones. If pilots landed or diverted for flyovers for every noise heard, no plane would ever get to the destination. I am surprised that the photos are being released. If I were a f/a in that situation, I don't think I would be talking about taking the pictures. Vottom line, they landed in CDG safely.

 

[PurduePete]

Looks like some minor structure damage where the piece of honeycomb is still attached. Wonder if this was caused by delamination or did someone forget to put the fastners back after working in that area?

The "piece of honeycomb" looks to be what's left of the air conditioning pack access panel where it hinges on the keel beam structure. That panel isn't held up by fasteners, but rather by a series of 8 latches at the forward, outboard, and aft edges of the panel.

 

[ch53D]

I’ve been told this is not the first door that has come off this A/C. I’m not sure if it’s true or not, but I understand this maybe the third door that has departed.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

It is human
nature to respond to the photos with the thought they should have
diverted but the facts are that the captain had to work with what he
knew."

Apollo 13 comes to mind. They didn't know exactly how bad it was until they were ready to enter the earth's atmosphere and jettisoned the command module. All the pilots on planes is go by what the instruments read and what imnormalities were being displayed. Nothing appeared wrong and they had 4 hours of smooth flight over land. Just shows how good these planes are actually built.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

SIT Happens

 

[eolesen]

Yes, they probably had four hours of land underneath them before leaving eastern Canada.

Are you actually implying that you have the slightest clue of a command decison in a situation like this?

No, actually, it was sarcasm, Mach.... I agree with the decision made, believe it or not.

I'd already seen the APFA recap describing the discussions with SOC and MOC before I posted the pictures. I'd also read the Dallas Morning News blog and read some of the posts from flight attendants on how the pilots ignored what they said about this...

But there were a lot of comments -- more than 60 on the item with the photos. So as a service to the time-challenged, I've summarized the major points:

The pilot clearly should have gotten the airplane back on the ground, and should lose his license for not doing so.
The pilot clearly made the right decision and should be applauded.
The flight was in danger.
The flight was not in danger.
The incident shows how good Boeing aircraft really are, compared to Airbus aircraft.
The incident shows how bad Boeing aircraft really are, compared to Airbus aircraft.
Flight attendants should shut up and stay out of the pilot's business because they're not qualified to make judgments about safety of flight.
Flight attendants are well qualified to judge when something goes wrong, and pilots should listen.
No big deal.
Big deal.

But, I decided to play the alarmist to see reactions. Thanks for proving what I was doing -- there's always a lot more to the story than meets the eye (especially how it gets presented via the media).

I do have to say I find it ironic that some of the same people who bemoan what the company does as far as safety are the same ones willing to back up the PIC decision made here..... That might lead someone to believe it's only an appropriate safety-related decision when it's made by union members...

 

[Skymess]

I do have to say I find it ironic that some of the same people who bemoan what the company does as far as safety are the same ones willing to back up the PIC decision made here..... That might lead someone to believe it's only an appropriate safety-related decision when it's made by union members...

Or it might lead some to believe that rational people view the facts and make their opinions based on those facts.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I’ve been told this is not the first door that has come off this A/C. I’m not sure if it’s true or not, but I understand this maybe the third door that has departed.

Some of that information could embarass AA. I am sure the computer records have been blocked or sanitized by now.

I wonder if a walk-around would have found anything. Um.......do mechs do walk-arounds at DFW?

.